On his final trip from Austin to Washington before his inauguration, George W. Bush talked with U.S. News Editor Stephen G. Smith
and Chief White House Correspondent Kenneth T. Walsh.
On his mandate. There are two types of political capital. One is domestic, and
foreign policy, obviously. I think the
fact that I'm sworn in as president will
say to the world, "He's got a lot of
political capital from an international perspective." Your question is
about domestic politics, obviously.
That's going to be up to me to sell
an agenda. I do think, though, that
the narrowness of the–the split in
the country will give us all an opportunity to say we can do better
than the past. I believe that's–I've
just had that sense that's what's
happening. And I also know that in
order to earn capital, you've got to
spend whatever capital you've got. But
I've got capital by virtue of being the
president.
Listen, I take on all the issues. When
someone calls in from the Hill and says
we're getting ready to do X, Y, Z, I will
be engaged. But the place where I'm
going to spend my capital, and I'm already starting to gather up the opportunity to put it on the table, is on tax relief, education reform, Social Security,
Medicare, and the military.
Getting going. I think education will
be the first thing. But I'd like to see
the tax relief package happen quickly. I think it needs to happen quickly for economic
recovery.
Tax-cut strategy. We're thinking
through that a lot. And obviously, as
we deal with the members of the
Hill and develop our own strategy,
I'll make that known at some point
in time. But right now is not the
proper time to talk about it. But you
bet. We're looking at all options.
And let me talk about tax relief. I view
it as an economic recovery plan. There's
a lot of discussion about debt and debt
relief. I'm for debt relief, and that's what
this plan is all about. There's a lot of
folks who have got a lot of debt and a lot
of consumer debt. And I'm concerned
that their inability to pay it off is going
to have a multiplier effect in our economy. And I think we need to give them
some of the surplus back so they can
help relieve their debt. There is also
government debt, and we need to do the
best we can on government debt as well.
On weighting the plan more to the middle
class, as Democrats demand. I know
I'm going to the Hill with what I
said I was going with. The full-blown $1.3 trillion tax plan, because
it's got a lot of features to it. It cuts
the bottom rate. A family of four
paying $4,000 gets roughly a 50
percent cut, or 2,000 additional
dollars. It cuts the top rate. The top
rate's important. It's going to help
unincorporated businesses. I mean,
part of the slowdown in the economy is going to affect the small-business sector. The estate tax repeal,
getting rid of the death tax is part of
helping capital accumulation form
in the private markets. The marriage penalty is a way to mitigate
unfairness in the tax code. I'm going
into what I campaigned on. I told
the people this is what I was going
to do, and that's what I'm going in
at.
On appealing to African Americans. My
opponent ran a very good campaign
in the community. I'm not the least
bit discouraged, however, because
in 1994 I believe I got about 9 percent of the African-American vote
against Governor Richards [in his
first Texas gubernatorial race]. I
stood up at my inauguration and
different speeches, I said, "I'm going
to be your governor, too," and ended
up four years later getting a heck of
a lot more votes in the African-American community. I'm running
against a person that worked–that
ran a good campaign there. But I'm
going to be their president, whether
they voted for me or not.
On the protests of black congressional
Democrats over the Florida outcome. I
just view that as politics.
On reaching out. I know, for example,
when we had the leaders in the faith
community come in, there wasn't a
lot of talk about politics. There was
a lot of talk about policy. And when
I was talking education in that very
same meeting, there was not a lot of
talk about politics. There was a lot
of talk about how we make sure
children get educated. So I understand politics, and I understand
policy. And I'm going to drive home
a set of policy initiatives that will
benefit people from all walks of life
and will help people help themselves.
On opposition to his nominees. I never
expected our nominees to not get
tough questions. And some will get
tougher questions than others, obviously. And you're talking about
John Ashcroft in particular as well
as Gale Norton or Linda Chavez.
And I fully expected them to be
questioned.
Let me give you an example, though,
of what I find interesting about Washington. Gale Norton–I read the other
day somebody was criticizing her for advocating drilling in "Anwar" [Artic National Wildlife Reserve]. Well, that's a
position I clearly took in the course of
the campaign, and of course I'm going
to pick somebody to be my interior secretary who agrees with me on that issue.
We don't have to agree on 100 percent
of the issues. But on key issues relative
to their departments, one should expect
me to pick somebody who agrees with
me on it.
On his adversaries. Listen, there are
special interests that aren't going to like
some of my picks because they didn't
like some of the positions I took. I
mean, they were the same folks that
were going after me in the election that
now have a second bite at the apple because I'm going to pick people that
agree with me on certain issues. And
Gale Norton is a classic example. I believe they're all going to be confirmed,
but they're going to be confirmed, some
of them, with tough battles. And that's
OK because it'll give them a chance to
show the country their mettle. I mean,
these are the very same questions I
asked. They're going to ask the questions I asked during our discussions.
And I was obviously satisfied with the
answers, and I think America will be
satisfied.
Take Ashcroft. This is a man who has
run and won statewide five times, if I'm
not mistaken, maybe even more, in a
very difficult state. I mean, Missouri is a
tough state. And Gale Norton ran twice
and won statewide–or won statewide
twice and then lost in the Republican
primary to Allard. But they're competent, smart, capable people who can do
the job. Now, they may have taken some
positions that irritated some of the interests in Washington, and we'll hear
about that. But that's not going to preclude them from being capable of doing
their job...
On the withdrawal of Linda Chavez.
It was her decision to make...And my
only answer I'm going to give you is it's
unfortunate. I picked her for a reason, I
thought she would be a fine member of
the cabinet. I still think she'd have made
a fine cabinet member.
On Senator John McCain's campaign-
finance bill. During the course of the
primaries, we were in agreement on
paycheck protection. I haven't seen his
bill he's filed yet. Somebody said they
thought that was a part of the bill, in
which case we can work together because I will sign a campaign funding reform bill that I view as balanced and
fair…..I would like to see some other
things in the bill. I'd like to see raising
the limits for individual contributions,
which Hagel had. I'd like to know who
put all that money behind these so-called independent groups that came after me. You know, there's a rumor
floating around about some of the–you
know, some big money came in there.
I'd like to know who it was. I'd like to
see disclosure on both sides, by the way.
People who come into these campaigns,
and it'd be nice to know who's putting
up this money for these groups.
I don't know all the fine print. But the
key is it be constitutional and fair. But
I've always said to the extent that these
groups spend money in which people
don't have any say-so, that that ought to
be abolished. Shareholders don't have a
say in how the money's spent. Labor
union guys don't have a say in how
they're spent. The key on the labor
unions is that there be a paycheck protection provision.
On America's divisions. This was a
very tough election, and it was hard
fought, as you know. And to Vice President Gore's credit, he cranked out the
vote. I mean, they did a phenomenal effort in turning out his constituencies
coming down the end. And we did–I
thought our team did a phenomenal effort even being in the contest running
against basically an incumbent. We had
a pretty good economy going for him,
and the world was at relative peace.
I view this as a unique moment for us
to rise above all this and for the federal
government to be able to show that the
immediate past of bickering and finger
pointing and the negative tone out of
the whole thing doesn't have to be. The
president can have a lot to do with it,
and I'm going to have to do it. Look, I
fully understand politics. Don't get me
wrong. You know, I've got a fairly thick
hide these days. But I also can share
credit, and I can sit down one on one
with these members, and I can be–when I tell them something, I mean it,
and I'm not going to change. And hopefully an administration will change the
tone, hopefully that Colin Powell will
convince Congress that foreign policy
ought to be bipartisan, and not only bipartisan but not isolationist and protectionist. I mean, the cabinet–Condee
Rice is going to be an effective voice on
setting the right tone. I think Rumsfeld
will be a very effective voice in his
arena.
On dealing with cynicism. Now, there
are some who don't think the justice
system is fair, who don't think the economy is meant for them. And I recognize
that. And I spoke about those folks a lot
in the campaign. Whether they voted for
me or not, I still feel that one of the jobs
of the president and all of us in positions of responsibility is to make sure
that everybody feels a part of the American experience. And that's the great
challenge. It's a huge challenge for the
country. And, look, I understand there's
bitterness amongst–you know, in the
African-American community. Many
think the justice system isn't fair, and
yet they view me as a strong advocate of
the death penalty. And I can see why
people will take a look at me and say,
"Well, gosh, I'm not so sure that he can
possibly hear my voice." And my job is
to hear the voice. And I think I can.
I think you've got to use all the power of
the presidency to heal whatever divide
there is. The other thing is the nation is
founded on such fabulous values, and
that becomes the touchstone for whatever healing is needed. I know also the
spirit in which I approach the job will
determine success, not so much in the
minute-by-minute success but the overall success of setting a tone, defining
conservatism as a compassionate philosophy. That just wasn't a slogan for
me. It was really a way of life, I hope,
that I'm able to live whether I'm in the
Oval Office or out of the Oval Office.
What he learned from his predecessors. I learned a lot from President Clinton. I mean, President Clinton was a
master at dealing with Congress, playing the endgame. And he… became a
very effective communicator. Ronald
Reagan was an effective communicator….President Reagan was optimistic
and strong and stuck to his guns…. I
think he's a good model… My dad was a
master at personal diplomacy, particularly in international affairs. I mean,
there's a lot to learn from a lot of the
presidents. Jimmy Carter brought a real
sense of values….Abe Lincoln, he dealt
with the house divided. I'm going to put
the portrait of Lincoln in the Oval Office–no one knows this yet, by the way.
That's your little scoop. …..But I would
hope that I would set my own pace and
tone and some day people say, "Well, I'd
sure like to be like George W." I hope
they say that. We'll see in four years.
On the emotion he will feel upon seeing his father on Inauguration Day.
How I'm going to handle it? Well, I'm
trying not to think about it because I
don't want to get too emotional. My
worry is not me. My worry is him. And I
turn around and see him all emotional,
then that will cause me to be–it'll be a
domino effect. The worse nightmares
are–turn around and there are mother
and dad–the whole family, like a
Charles Addams cartoon…..And you
freeze. It'll be a very poignant moment.
It's going to be a very powerful moment
for a lot of people. I'll have a task, I'll be
focused on getting this done….I'm sure
there's going to be a moment where I
suspect he'll come and pay me a visit in
the Oval Office, which will be interesting. They're going to spend the night in
the White House with my brothers and
sisters, the night after the parade. So we
might, in between the parade and the–I'm just speculating now–in between
the parade and the ball, walk over and
I'll show him how I think the Oval Office ought to look….
I'm thinking about leaving the Washington portrait there that President
Clinton has. I love the portrait. Other
than that, I'm not sure.. I think there's
room for three more, maybe. I haven't
picked the cabinet room yet either.
What he learned from his dad. You've
just got to give it your best shot. People
ask me all the time about the 37 days. I
guess word got out that I was very calm
and very at peace, and I was.…Once I'd
gotten over the frustration of the campaign not ending and had accepted the
reality that it was going to take a while
and become used to the fact that
lawyers were going to everywhere, I had
time to reflect. And I gave it my best
shot. I worked as hard as I possibly
could. And when I was asked to give a
big speech I have it as best I could.
When it was time to stand up in front of
America on three debates with the person that was supposedly a much better
debater than me, I thought I did
O.K….Maybe I look back at some point
and think of some things we could have
done differently, but not many…You
know, as they say, I left it on the playing
field. I expended all I had. So once I got
used to what I just described to you, my
attitude was you couldn't have done any
better.
Some of that is from my dad….I
watched him in '92. I remember all the
carping about, well, he must have not
really wanted to be president. Then I remember going in his hotel room after
these trips, seeing how dead tired he
was. I also learned a lot about political
capital that I think a lot about. Do you
have any political capital going in? The
answer is absolutely, and I'm going to
spend it all. Because you earn capital by
spending it. And the fact that he didn't
properly spend capital, much to my chagrin at the time, I think cost him the
presidency.
His father's role during his administration. I rely upon his advice. Obviously a clear example would have been
what did he think about my idea of Dick
Cheney being the vice president. He
knew him better than me….I could handle the politics of it but I was more interested in the personality. He was a
very strong advocate of Cheney, and it
turned out he was right. And it's funny
how our conversations go. He'll say,
"What's happening?'' You know, he
loves the whole political scene. He doesn't necessarily like what happens in the
political scene, but he likes to be on the
inside, and I don't blame him. And so
I'll share with him what so-and-so
might have said in a private conversation, and then that'll lead to something.
And I'll say, "Gosh, what do you think
about that?" I'll always talk to him as a
son to a dad. But there'll be moments,
not a lot, but there'll be moments where
he'll have a kernel of advice that I'll accept and it'll make a difference.
On his post-election struggle with Al
Gore. I guess the word got out that I was
very calm and very at peace, and I was,
because I–you know, it's interesting.
Once I'd gotten over the frustration of
the campaign not ending and had accepted the reality that it was going to
take a while and become used to the fact
that lawyers were going to be everywhere, I had time to reflect. And I gave
it my best shot. I mean, I couldn't
have–I worked as hard as I possibly
could. And when I was asked to give a
big speech, I gave it as best I could.
When it was time to stand up in front of
America on three debates with the person that was supposedly a much better
debater than me, I thought I did OK.
Maybe I look back at some point and
think of some things we could have
done differently, but not many. As they
say, I left it on the playing field. I expended all I had. So once I got used to
what I just described to you, my attitude
was you couldn't have done any better.
On President Clinton's framework for
peace in the Mideast. First of all, I
shouldn't comment about any of it until
I fully see all the details and until I'm
the president because there's still a
chance, and our nation must speak with
one voice. Secondly, I give him credit for
giving a good go of it. But, thirdly, any
framework that's successful is one in
which the parties must agree to the–obviously–agree to the terms. And I
haven't had a chance to talk to respective leaders about what their points of
view are on these different aspects of
the framework.
On whether to build a new radar facility in Alaska, a first step toward missile
defense. What we got to do is convince
the skeptics that this is a logical step toward making the world most peaceful.There is the missile defense shield
that is relevant to the state of Alaska.
There are also technologies that will be
more theater-based technologies, that
will enable us to help our friends the Israelis or other nations thwart threats of
an accidental launch or nonaccidental
launch from some of these folks that
don't–that view us or them as enemies.
But Don and I will develop a strategy
that we can move in the Congress. We
talked yesterday, and there wasn't unanimity on the issue with the leaders
from both sides of the aisle, and there
are some skeptics. And there are not
only skeptics at home, there are going to
be some skeptics abroad. And as I said
during the campaign, I'm going to–there needs to be a reasonable period of
time for us to try to sell our plan to the
world leaders. But I intend to move forward.
Part of our job is to develop a strategic plan that includes missile defense
that will enable the appropriators to prioritize spending. And that's going to be
one of Don's first charges, is to do the
review of the current research and development programs, procurement programs so that our spending is focused.
Included in the priorities is going to be
missile defense. There's going to be an
increase in the defense budget, the extent of which–you know, how big will
be determined here during the course of
the budget discussions. As a matter of
fact, I'm going over to the Defense Department tomorrow with our national
security team to be briefed at the Pentagon.
I'm sure the subject will come up. We
will immediately request money–and
I'm not exactly sure of the mechanism
yet; and if I did know, I wouldn't share
it with you yet because I want to work
this through the members of Congress–for a pay increase. That's what I said in
the campaign. But that's a billion. The
bigger issues or the larger issues, as you
said, of research and development and–we're just going to have to make some
tough choices and work with Congress
to make the tough choices. But I know
step 1 is to develop a blueprint of priorities so that it becomes clear in people's
minds where we're headed as opposed
to a kind of a grab-bag of appropriations. I mean, yesterday we heard
every–you know, there was a lot of discussion about really important weapons
systems, all of which we can't fund. And
so the job of the administration is going
to have to be to make those tough choices. And it starts with having a strong defense secretary who can prioritize and
develop this strategic plan.
On loyalty vs. sycophancy on his staff.
It's not loyal for someone to walk in and
say, "I'm going to tell the old boy"–he
says, "My, you look spectacular today,
Mr. President. I can't believe your
speech was so brilliant. You rivaled
Churchill." No. Loyalty is somebody–I'll
tell you what loyalty is. Loyalty is somebody who can put it on the table. But
loyalty is also that it be in the context of
the team, not in the context of, well, I
told the president or I did this. Loyalty
is much more about honesty and directness and, at the same time, keeping
counsel. It's the ability for me to tell
Karen Hughes, "This is what I'm thinking" and not read about it. But I think
the worst–I mean, I expect there to be
tough discussions–I mean, one of the
things that–you know, I don't mind creative tension at all. As a matter of fact,
some would say sometimes I try to foster it. It's the mother in me. I'm engendering discussion. You know, my management style is I don't mind tackling–I
mean, if there's a personnel issues or
people aren't getting along….And if
somebody's got a beef with me or a
problem with me, I will say, and not in
an embarrassing way–and I don't care
who it's going to be in this administration, if you got a problem with me, I
want to hear it. And if I have a problem
[with] them, I promise you I'll say it.
But I will never do so in a way that will
discourage. I think I've got a good sense
of how to build a team.
But to answer your question, I expect
there to be some pretty darn interesting
discussions in our national security
team. I hope there is. I put it together
with that in mind, of being able to have
some strong-willed folks hash things
through. And there are going to be some
strong-willed folks in that room. But a
president needs the benefit of strongwilled people. But the ultimate test will
be when I decide, is it a snappy salute
that says, "Yes, sir, we're moving forward"? Or is it a salute with the fingers
crossed behind their back? Because we
can't have that for the good of the country.
On creative thinking. There's two aspects to the job. One is problem solving,
and good managers are problem solvers,
I think. If they're not a problem solver,
they're not a good manager. And secondly, the creative side of the White
House. And I would put the two senior
counselors I put there as two of the
most creative there are, Karen and Karl.
And I frankly wouldn't rule out the old
president, by the way, as somebody who
is willing to think. You know, here's the
thing. Ideas in the public arena come
from all different places. And the fundamental question is: Are we going to be a
group of good listeners that have the
right instincts to pick up on a good idea
and the tactical smarts on how to
achieve it? And I think we will. I think
we will. I think our cabinet–I mean,
some of the issues don't require much
creativity. Some of it's just–you know,
the tax relief, the issues we campaigned
on. That's [the] creative beginning. I
will tell you, putting that tax relief package together took a lot of creative
thought. Larry Lindsay led the charge.
But it also took a lot of time and effort
and bringing people together. I mean, it
was a well-thought-out plan. But in the
course of four years, there's going to be
a need to regenerate that kind of sense
of creativity, and I understand that. And
I think I've got good people to do so.
His outlook. I think it's going to be great
fun. You'll be able to tell. I don't hide my inner soul very well. I
mean, you'll tell. Why is it going to be
fun? It's going to be exciting. I love to
make decisions. I like the people with
whom I'm surrounded. I like people. I
also understand the great responsibilities of the job, and that makes me feel
good. I think it's going to be exciting. I
think it's going to be very interesting. I
think it's going to be fun, I do. I think
there'll be some moments it won't be so
much fun. I mean, I don't like to stay up
late, for starters, kind of endless hours
of dinners.
On participating in Washington's social
life. I don't view it as my permanent address. No. I think I'm going to come to
the capital and use the resources there
to get the job done. And I'm not sure
what that means, to be a part of–I just
have to get into it. I don't go
to parties all the time, and I'm not much
of a socializer, really, although there's a
lot of socializing that goes on. But I
hope to be a good citizen. I also like to
plan on spending as much time as I can
on my place in Texas.
His ranch in Crawford, Texas. It is a
unique piece of property, for starters, in
a traditional prairie land. Then there's
this kind of a grazing land type with a
fair amount of oaks, live oaks. And then
there's these canyons, fairly dramatic
canyons. Then it's got about three miles
of creek and/or river frontage, and it's
got running water in it now. And in
these bottoms there's magnificent hardwoods. And I can get down in there and
fool around on the land and chop cedar,
as Ken mentioned. But it's very therapeutic. Plus Laura, she's right now moving into our new home, built this magnificent home. It's not
magnificent-gaudy. It is low in the tree
line, native stone. It is very interesting
because when you walk in you go,
"Wow! Look at these rooms," because
they're wonderful rooms. But it's hard
to tell it from looking on the outside. It
is a peaceful place to be. It's kind of the
simple pleasures of life…really become a
daily routine.
For example, this morning–you
know, much has been made of the fact
that I wake up every morning and bring
coffee to Laura, which I do. I feed the
animals. We now got a new animal, a
little bitty Scottish terrier that's going to
the White House. By the way, Christie
Todd–I campaigned in Jersey, the one
day was Laura's birthday. She said,
"What did the governor get you for a
birthday present?" "Nothing." I said, "A
kiss." Then all of a sudden they started
talking about dogs and how she's raising
Scottish terriers. Now we got one.
Anyway, it's kind of neat to go out
there, the sun was beginning to rise, and
play with the little guy. It's beautiful
kind of pasture. Then I went for a run
with the other dog and just walked. And
I started thinking about a lot of things. I
was able to–I can't remember what it
was. Oh, the inaugural speech, started
thinking through that. I don't know, I'm
much at ease there, and I'd like to spend
time there. It's going to be hard because
there's a lot of weekend events evidently, the White House correspondents'
dinner and all that.
His critique of Will Ferrell's impression of
him on Saturday Night Live. I hate to
admit this….Ben Crenshaw and Julie
had us over to dinner the other night.
And at the dinner table they said, "This
guy Will Ferrell is getting you down really well." I said, "Oh, really?" I hadn't
seen the guy. My one encounter with
Will Ferrell–and I'm very apologetic
about this–is I went to the Saturday
Night Live set, and I did this–Al Gore
and I did the–whatever–we talked into
the Teleprompter thing. And this tall
fellow came up. He's kind of shy, evidently, and he came up. I didn't know
who he was. And after it was all over,
somebody said, "You know, that's the
guy that plays you on Saturday Night
Live." I missed a golden opportunity to
get to know him and spend a little time.
I'd love to have spent time with him….I
have not seen him do it lately. I saw the
debates, is the last one I saw. I hear he's
pretty darn good. I'd love to have him
over to the White House. Seriously. I
would like for him a little more personal
time with me so he can get even better.
