Wednesday, July 11, 2 p.m. EDT Horror and humanity: Photographing war Ron Haviv, photographer

Ron Haviv has spent 10 years photographing in the Balkans. A typical day for him includes "at least one arrest by a faction determined to have its side of the story told." Learn more about his work here: www.bloodandhoney.com

Ron Haviv: Hello! Thank you all for joining me. I appreciate the interest in photography as well as the subject of war photography and my work in the Balkans.

Welcome, Ron. In the 10 years you have been covering the Balkan conflict, what does the photographic record bring to light, both personally and professionally?

Ron Haviv: Personally, I was able to learn a great deal about humanity and people. I was able to see people being incredibly brave, incredibly cruel. To see the value of families and friendships. All in all, it taught me a great deal about life. Professionally, it showed me both the limitations as well as the possibilities of what journalism and photography can do in telling the world about what is happening.

During the last decade, I've seen many of your war pictures and have been impressed with-no matter if it's a killer or a victim-your ability to preserve their dignity like few of your contemporaries. How do you do this?

Ron Haviv: Thank you for appreciating my work. I make an effort, like other photographers, to have a connection with the viewer of the image. I hope that through the use of color and composition there is an emotional connection with a picture. And that you as the reader appreciate it.

Do you often connect with the people you photograph, or is there some personal distance?

Ron Haviv: In times of war there is often not the ability to personally connect with the subjects. In actuality, more often than not, I attempt to be a fly on the wall and document what is happening without any interference. Even if that is just saying hello. I try to influence the situation as little as possible. There are times I spent more time in a relaxed atmosphere with subjects, getting to know them and their stories.

In the midst of a conflict, the presence of a journalist often "politicizes" the issues and participants, who try and manipulate the portrayal. How have groups tried to manipulate your coverage?

Ron Haviv: Manipulation begins on the ground. Over the last 10 years, my experience has been that in all different sides of a conflict, whether it be Somalia or the former Yugoslavia, people are aware of the impact of the media. It is up to the journalist to attempt to view the truth and portray that to the readers. It is a constant battle, whether it be arguing with a man who has an AK-47 or simply arguing over a drink, to be able to be objective in terms of being fair, by showing the different sides of a conflict. You are manipulated by access, by being told what you can and cannot see, particularly in Yugoslavia. No matter what side you are working on, you were given a historical lesson by every person you met. And every lesson began at a different time and with a different viewpoint. After many years of this it was easy to have conversations with commanders, refugees, and politicians because you knew the stories by heart and applied it to whatever side you were on. This allowed us to converse and get access, but I think the journalists who worked this reason were very aware how skewed each side's view was.

War photography is such a grisly subject. The things you see, how do you handle them emotionally?

Ron Haviv: It is obviously very difficult as a human being to be somewhere where someone is being killed in front of you. Or a family who has lost all their possessions and are fleeing for their lives. I have found over the years, and it took me several years to realize how to deal with it, that I am able to justify my being there through the work and the fact people are able to see and hopefully learn from the work that is produced from these places.

How were you able to ride with Arkhan`s unit?

Ron Haviv: I had met Arkhan in 1991 during the war in Croatia. Arkhan was a very smart man with a pathological side to him. He thought he was smarter than everyone else, that he was a savior of the Serbian nation. When the war broke out in Bosnia in 1992, in a small town near the Serbian border, I was already there working as the townspeople fought each other. Arkhan arrived to save the Serbs in the town. I went to him and appealed to his sense of vanity and asked him to let me photograph his troops liberating the Serbian people. Thinking he was smarter than me and the media, he said, "Of course." I was then able to document the first instances of ethnic cleansing in Bosnia as his troops killed a number of elderly people. After the photographs were published, Arkhan never let any journalist travel with him again.

Mr. Haviv, what, in your opinion, can the U.S. and U.N. do to better help the Balkans attain and maintain peace beyond the use of peacekeepers?

Ron Haviv: Unfortunately, I think at this point, especially in relation to Bosnia, the very idea of having peacekeeping troops there is enough to prevent further ethnic fighting. I think what needs to be done is a combination of economic revitalization and education of a new generation. But to this day, in terms of Bosnia, the country is divided almost entirely into different, ethnically pure, areas. Only with economic incentives and new ideas will they be able to move forward.

You say you had a hard time convincing your New York editors that the outbreak was serious. What finally changed their minds?

Ron Haviv: It was in 1991, in the fall. As the Croatian war was entering its third month, it was a combination of a siege of Dubrovik and one called Vukovar. It was these two places that had been surrounded by Serb forces. One was a world heritage site and the other a town on the riverbank. That started to get the world's attention. Vukovar was under siege for three months, and the town's population of over 60,000 people were ethnically cleansed when the town finally fell.

Did you often find yourself in life-threatening situations?

Ron Haviv: Unfortunately, the war that took place in the former Yugoslavia killed over 60 journalists, with many more wounded. I have been very lucky during my time there. But unfortunately there were a number of difficult situations.

Is there a county or situation you'd avoid working in, say, that is more dangerous than the Balkans?

Ron Haviv: I think that areas such as Chechnya now, where it has been made apparent by all sides that foreigners are not welcome. As a journalist you must determine your own safety parameters. If you go to a country where it is obvious they are kidnapping foreigners, it would make me hesitate or be very careful in my choice to go there.

How does the tradition of war photography influence your work?

Ron Haviv: I think that the tradition comes across to me in the knowledge that many great men and women before me have ventured down these same paths. It gives me hope that my work can add a small part to the legacy created by those individuals.

How did you make it into professional photography?

Ron Haviv: While I was at school I hit the streets of New York and picked up the phone and called every newspaper and wire service, asking for work. After most of them finished laughing at me, I was fortunate enough to find one editor of a very small newspaper who told me that he couldn't pay me anything, but I was welcome to learn from his experience and take pictures on the streets of New York and compete with the big photographers. After spending time there and meeting people on the streets, I found a friendly family of photographers who were supportive and helped me reach the next level.

With the encouragement of a Time photographer, I traveled to Panama in 1989 where then dictator Noriega was holding elections. With the help of the Time photographer and AFP Photos (a French wire service), I was able to get work on a picture-by-picture basis in Panama. The Time photographer, experienced in big international stories, gave me a crash course in how to deal with the riots, tear gas, and gunshots. As the story progressed, Noriega lost the election. When the would-be victors went through the streets to try and create civil unrest, paramilitary thugs beat the vice presidential candidate. I was able to document that event. The photograph was put on the cover of Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News. That was my incredibly lucky introduction to the world of international photography.

What's your favorite photography story? Funniest? Scariest?

Ron Haviv: That probably was it!

How do you answer critics who question the merits of photography as an art form?

Ron Haviv: I don't.

I consider myself a photojournalist. One who tells the story with photographs and the skills of a journalist. It is not up to me to determine if people regard the work as art. I am only concerned with the images being seen by as many people as possible. For there to be an emotional connection, and to learn from them. If someone wants to call it art, they have my full support.

What is it that keeps you going after seeing so much turmoil and the aftermath of war?

Ron Haviv: To be perfectly honest, that is a question that I have asked myself a number of times over the last few years. It wasn't until recently, when I finally produced a book on this work, that I understood why I kept going back. It is often quite depressing for photographs of these situations to be published. And for there to be little to no reaction from the world. Although the majority of my work is taken as news photographs to influence the situation immediately, I have come to realize that photography has a second and sometimes more powerful life as a historical record and a form of evidence.

I think this is quite important now as we have entered a new historical phase with the arrest of President Milosevic. The current case against him with Kosovo, as well as those that will follow, are all backed up photographically by myself and my colleagues. Not only does the work accuse Mr. Milosevic but in my opinion holds responsible the politicians of the world who saw these images in the media as the war went on, and often did too little and too late to help.

It is with that knowledge that I find the strength to continue doing this type of work.

Was there anything in particular you regret not photographing?

Ron Haviv: There have been some times where some people were executed in front of me. Not only was I unable to help or stop it from happening, I was specifically told I was not allowed to take photographs. I regret that those people's voices were not heard.

Where will your next assignment take you?

Ron Haviv: Most likely I will head back to the Balkans for what I hope will be the last chapter.

I hope that this will be done peacefully. That the Macedonians will have learned the lessons of their neighbors and not fight.

There is an exhibition that is traveling along with my book, Blood and Honey, that is currently in Croatia and heading to Macedonia next. I hope the lessons this work provides will not be needed. But in an attempt to give back something in this region, I hope the message of this work will be heard.

What's your advice for beginning photographers who are looking for professional work?

Ron Haviv: My first advice is decide what type of photography you want to do. From there, whether it be still life, newspaper, or magazine, find people who are doing that work and ask for an internship.

I worked for free for a long time before getting paid. It was the best education I ever had. If you are more advanced and want work that involves travel, my advice is to go and not wait for someone to send you.

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to participate today. If you are interested in more information or communicating with me, please go to www.bloodandhoney.com.

I can only hope that there will be no need for war photography in the future, but I am not optimistic. As part of the public, I implore you all, whether you are photographers or readers, to take an active role in participation and make your opinions heard to the people in power. Thank you.

Host: That is the end of our time today. Thank you to all who submitted questions as well as to those who simply read along.