The Immigration Debate Can Wait; Healthcare for All Cannot

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One more point about farms: Professor Philip Martin (professor of agricultural and resource economics at the University of California, Davis) has found labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, even if farm wages were allowed to rise 40%, and if ALL the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only approx $8 a year (and mechanization could offset these higher labor costs).
Let's be clear about the overall point though: the negatives of illegal immigration and guest worker/amnesty programs far outweigh the positives, and we have to reduce the incentives for illegal aliens to come and stay here.

Joe of PA 2:23PM November 18, 2009

Mr. Beas,
I've seen your rather elitist argument many times. Who will fill these low paying jobs? The answer IS simple: Americans --who used to do these jobs (and still do in many areas), especially teens and younger, less-skilled adults starting out.
Have you seen the obscenely high U-6 unemployment rates for high school educated (non-college) adults, especially for Hispanic and African-Americans? And as I noted, we saw with the workplace raids (before Napolitano caved to La Raza et al. & stopped them) Americans filled the jobs vacated by illegals (even in some instances in agriculture), wages increased, and the company survived just fine.
We already have many worker and visa programs, and have passed about half-dozen amnesties for illegals since the huge 1986 IRCA amnesty. It's well past time we enforce immigration laws which would protect American workers and taxpayers.

Joe of PA 1:54PM November 18, 2009

Ken Beas: What you say about the American labor force filling the gap if illegals leave, and the probability of rising labor costs, etc. is very true. But your argument for keeping illegal workers because they cost less, was similar to the arguments presented by the Confederate States in the Civil War Era. Their economy could not function without slave labor. Did that system justify slavery? The present system stinks. It is also similar to the deteriorating Roman Empire's policy of bringing in aliens for cheap labor. The Confederate States and the Roman Empire both fell because of that policy of putting cheap or free labor as the main cog of their economies.
Changes must be made. The Western powers have for centuries benefitted by having a "third world" to exploit. Now that the US has outsourced so much to off shore manufacturers, we had to bring in a huge "third world" group to keep the remaining American companies afloat. This has been shortsighted, stupid and a long term disaster. It must be fixed now. I am not hateful or a bigot, and I feel sorry for the illegal immigrants' poverty back in their home countries. But everyone is being exploited by this situation except companies making money off it.

David of NY 1:40PM November 18, 2009

Okay, the majority of illegals enter a job market where minimal skills are required and thus they are paid low wages. The American labor force is a highly trained and specialized force, when compared to that of other agricultural based nations.So assuming we kick out the illegals, the low paying jobs will still need to be filled by someone and who will that someone be?....you guessed it, the highly trained American labor force.
There is no way in hell that these highly trained individuals will work for a peasants pay, minimum wage, for such a demanding job. So what must happen, the costs of labor will shoot through the roof as a result of the overall increase in expenses farmers will face with the new labor force.( the reason for the increase in labor costs is farmers will have to start paying higher wages to attract workers) Not to mention the unprecedented amount of time it will take these new laborers to adopt their new trade. So what you get is rampant inflation and an even greater disparity between the rich and the poor.
So, Mr. common sense 101, it's not as simple as you may think.

Ken Beas of CA 8:30AM November 18, 2009

Jason Riley is the Wall Street Journal, cheap labor shill whose arguments are, needless to say, unconvincing (and I'm underwhelmed by his bachelor's degree in English).
Yes, free up jobs. It's called Common Sense 101. If Obama & Napolitano were actually enforcing immigration laws (instead of gutting them and giving illegals work permits like they are) jobs would open up for Americans, as they did after the Swift Plant raids for example.
The fact is that attrition through enforcement of laws works, which is why the open borders types fear this strategy so much.

Joe of PA 9:56PM November 17, 2009

Free up Jobs?...ridiculous claim
have you no understanding of economics?

Ken Beas of CA 7:58PM November 17, 2009

Ignorant and full of hate. I suggest you stop listening to morons like Rush Limbaugh and actually start paying attention to reality. Read this; Let Them In: The Case for Open Borders, Jason L. Riley.
Jason L. Riley is an editor for a RIGHT wing news source who actually researched, unlike many of the main stream news outlets, and was able to debunk many claims about illegal immigration.
If I came off too aggressive pardon me, I just get angered when in-factual claims are made by ignorant people, hate filled people.

Ken Beas of CA 7:55PM November 17, 2009

First: those opposed to ILLEGAL immigration are not "anti-immigrant" no matter how many times ethnocentric groups such as La Raza repeat this nonsense.
Second: Reasonable, logical & sensible people of all backgrounds agree (80% according to a recent Rasmussen poll) that illegal aliens should not receive further health care benefits as this will just be a further "draw" that would encourage more illegal immigration.
Lastly: overall the way to resolve this problem is to reject all forms of "pathway" amnesty, enforce our existing immigration laws, cut off the jobs, and stop all non-emergency benefits for illegal aliens. This would cause the majority of illegals to return home over time without the need for mass deportations.
This would also have the great benefit of freeing up millions of jobs for unemployed working class Americans -- including young African-Americans who are often overloked in this debate by the well-funded special interest groups peddling amnesty policies.

Joe of PA 7:53PM November 17, 2009

Almost all of us Americans can trace our families' immigrant backgrounds. Many waited years to LEGALLY come into this country, and then assimilated, learned English, paid their dues and did not cheat the system. They also had families back in their home coutries who were bad off. But being LEGAL and HONORABLE was very important to them.
Regarding the comments about children of ILLEGAL immigrants suffering because they are denied things provided to Americans strikes a nerve. The families of American citizens who get caught participating in ILLEGAL activities suffer too.
Benefits paid for by U.S. citizens and LEGAL aliens, must be provided only for citizens and LEGAL aliens. Hospitals (two in my area) have had to close because thousands of ILLEGAL and uninsured aliens were going to emergency rooms for primary care and this drove them into financial collapse. THESE PEOPLE ALL WORK FULL TIME, but unlike us do not pay for insurance. I, and thousands of self employed like me pay 100% of our own coverage. Why can't these EMPLOYED ILLEGAL immigrants do the same? These people are here to make money and that's what they are doing. But they contribute nothing to the system.
Whatever Insurance program comes into play in the near future must exclude ILLEGAL aliens. Perhaps an arrangement must be forced on their home countries to provide them with insurance. After all, the money they earn here goes back to those countries.

David of NY 3:53PM November 17, 2009

Lawbreaking illegal aliens may be illiterate, but they are not stupid. Right now they get medical coverage at emergency rooms, then stiff them for the bill. Why on earth would they want to pay for coverage when they can get it free?

Estoban of AZ 11:13AM November 17, 2009