Abortion Debate Could Make or Break Healthcare Reform

The bill the Democrats have introduced includes no funds for abortion period. The Bishops and Catholics are being used by the right in an effort to deny affordable health care to Americans. No matter how many safeguards the Democrats put into the public option to ensure that no federal funds go to abortion the right will still insist that the bill subsidizes

abortion which it does not. The right has learned that if one repeats a lie long enough, people will begin to believe it.

By their own standards, if the Bishops do not support health reform then they become the murderers of their neighbors, who include the unborn. We have 188,000 Americans dying every year because they don't have health care. That number will quadruple if this bill fails. Those who have insurance are dying every day because the insurance companies deny their covered claims. Parents watch their children cry in terrible pain for months while they fight with their insurance companies to approve a covered operation. This is personal for me. My son lost his insurance when he was laid off. Copra wanted over 1,000. mo to extend it. He has a 2yr. old and a pregnant wife with medical problems. The only job he could find was a temp one that pays minimum wage. He has to borrow money for food. Health insurance is out of the question. In 1975 it cost $11,000 to have a baby and $300. to abort. So help me God, if these Bishops don't come out in support of health care, I will personally rise up to testify against them come judgement day when the good Lord asks how they loved their neighbors. If my son/wife are pushed into having to abort their child, the Bishops will go to hell for its abortion, not my son. That goes for all those right to life religious hypocrites who would deny health care to their neighbors. That is justice.

There is only one thing we need to know in this debate. The Republicans represent the insurance companies, wall street, and the rich. Most of the Democrats represent the poor and the middle class. With his whole heart our President represents the poor and the middle class and those who have no voice. Anything else is propaganda put out to confuse us and cheat us out of our own health care. The Catholic Pope says health care is a right for every man, woman, and child and we should do whatever we can to make sure everyone has it. This isn't about abortion although those who wish to kill health care are trying to make it so. I hope the Catholic Bishops will not be fooled by the lies of those devils.

Janet of KS 2:38PM September 16, 2009

Abortion is evil. The Bible tells us to ”be fruitful and multiply.” And while most religious denominations see that overpopulation concerns and having children born to parents who want them are important, the Catholics, Muslims and Mormons want more souls to save for an eternal life in Paradise. While some may say that God gave us the capacity to reason and He gave us science as a major culmination of that gift, we should not believe those who specialize in environmental science and other related sciences. Some scientists wrongfully say that the arable land per person is rapidly diminishing. Some say that unloved children are populating our prisons and mental institutions, some will say that the increased populations and the use of energy fueled technology are responsible for severe climate change, some will say that we are running out of some natural resources, like fresh water, and that we are polluting our lands, seas and waterways with our wastes. But they are wrong. God will provide. Why should we be concerned with the facts enumerated on such websites as http://overpopulation.org or be alarmed by the evidence and proposals in the popular free ebook series “In Search of Utopia.” (http://andgulliverreturns.info) Obviously more children born to parents who don’t want them will give more jobs to prison employees and will give more opportunities to missionaries and preachers to grab those souls from the clutches of Satan.

Professor Joel 5:40AM September 16, 2009

The debate on abortion is merely opinion. Moral values are based on either self-centered, God-based or society-based non-provable basic assumptions. For the Catholic viewpoint let me excerpt from the free ebook series “And Gulliver Returns” (httå://andgulliverreturns.info) The Abortion chapter in Book 4 elaborates the pros and cons of the 3 ethical assumptions. Let me attempt to summarize the changing Catholic position. From the 13th Century the views of St. Thomas Aquinas, that male embryos got their souls about 4 weeks after conception, females somewhat later, were the standard. His was a Christionized view of Aristotle’s ideas.

The crux of the modern idea, that the soul is infused at conception, might be traced to St. Paul (Romans 5:12) who started the ball rolling on ‘original sin.’ 500 years later St. Augustine popularized the idea. But the Blessed Virgin was born without original sin, her Immaculate Conception. Pope Pius IX declared this in 1854. Then in 1870 he decided that popes were infallible in church doctrine. So was his pronouncement retroactive?

Recent popes have generally followed Pius’s idea that the soul enters the zygote at the moment of conception. This brings with it some theological problems. Since many fertilized ova never implant in the uterus what happens to these little souls?

If you are really interested in the question, see the aforementioned chapter. It is done in detail.

Preventing abortion, or contraception, adds to the world's major problem--overpopulation. Overpopulation is the world's top environmental issue, according to a survey of the faculty at the SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry (ESF) published in Science Daily April 20, 2009.. "Overpopulation is the only problem," said Dr. Charles A. Hall, a systems ecologist. "If we had 100 million people on Earth - or better, 10 million - no others would be a problem." Current estimates put the planet's population at more than six billion. Other faculty at ESF said: "Overpopulation means that we are putting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than we should, just because more people are doing it and this is related to overconsumption by people in general, especially in the 'developed' world." "But, whether developed or developing, everyone is encouraged to 'want' and perceive that they 'need' to consume beyond the planet's ability to provide." Climate change was cited as the second most-pressing issue, with the need to develop renewable energy resources to replace fossil fuels coming in third. Rounding out the top 10 issues on the ESF list are overconsumption, the need for more sustainable practices worldwide, the growing need for energy conservation, the need for humans to see themselves as part of the global ecosystem, overall carbon dioxide emissions, the need to develop ways to produce consumer products from renewable resources, and dwindling fresh water resources.

Dr. Bob of CA 4:59AM September 16, 2009

Obama said that Healtchcare bill HR 3200 does not include Abortion coverage. If this is so ...(1)Why were the 6 Republican amendments to include language which specifically excludes abortion coverages rejected by the Democrats ? and

(2) Why aren't Planned Parenthood, NARAL and the feminist groups screaming from the roof-tops that abortion is not covered? (Duh...That's because abortion is covered)

Laffs of NJ 4:06PM September 15, 2009