Groundbreaking Gay Marriage Trial Starts in California

January 11, 2010 RSS Feed Print

SAN FRANCISCO -- The first federal trial to determine if the U.S. Constitution prohibits states from outlawing same-sex marriage gets under way Monday, and the two gay couples on whose behalf the case was brought will be among the first witnesses.

The proceedings, which are expected to last two to three weeks, involve a challenge to Proposition 8, the gay marriage ban approved by California voters in November 2008.

Regardless of the outcome, the case is likely to be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, where it ultimately could become a landmark that determines if gay Americans have the right to marry.

The judge who will render a decision, Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn R. Walker, has asked lawyers arguing for and against the ban to present the facts underlying much of the political rhetoric surrounding same-sex marriage. Among the questions Walker plans to entertain are whether sexual orientation can be changed, how legalizing gay marriage affects traditional marriages and the effect on children of being raised by two mothers or two fathers.

"The case is intriguing, exciting and potentially very significant because it addresses multiple important questions that, surprisingly to many, remain open in federal law," said Jennifer Pizer, marriage director for the gay law advocacy group Lambda Legal. "Can the state reserve the esteemed language and status of marriage just for heterosexual couples, and relegate same-sex couples to a lesser status? Are there any adequate public interests to justify reimposing such a caste system for gay people, especially by a majority vote to take a cherished right from a historically mistreated minority?"

The sponsors of Proposition 8, which passed with 52 percent of the vote, won permission to defend the law in court after Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Attorney General Jerry Brown refused to. The attorney general and the governor are defendants in the case because of their positions in state government.

Lawyers for the measure's backers plan to argue that because same-sex marriage still is a social experiment, it is wise for states like California to take a wait-and-see approach. Their witnesses will testify that governments historically have sanctioned traditional marriage as a way to promote responsible child-rearing and that this remains a valid justification for limiting marriage to a man and a woman.

The anticipation and tension surrounding the trial were evident over the weekend, when Proposition 8's sponsors asked the U.S. Supreme Court to stop the proceedings from being recorded and broadcast on YouTube. Walker approved such a plan last week, saying the case was appropriate for wide dissemination because it dealt with an issue of wide interest and importance.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, who oversees the federal courts in western states, did not act on the emergency petition Sunday night.

While other courts have wrestled with the constitutional issues raised by prohibiting same-sex marriages - the Supreme Court last took a look at the issue 38 years ago - Walker's court is the first to employ live witnesses in the task. Among those set to testify are the leaders of the Proposition 8 campaign, academic experts from the fields of political science, history, psychology and economics, and the two plaintiff couples - Kristin Perry and Sandra Stier, who live in Berkeley, and Paul Katami and Jeffrey Zarrillo, who live in Los Angeles.

Chad Griffin, a political consultant who helped spearhead the lawsuit, said the four were recruited to represent California couples who say they would get married were it not for Proposition 8 because they lead lives indistinguishable from those of other couples, gay or straight, who have jobs, children and a desire for the social stamp of approval that matrimony affords, Griffin said.

"Our story, I think, is pretty ordinary," said Perry, 45, the title plaintiff in the case registered on legal dockets as Perry v. Schwarzenegger. "We fell in love, we want to get married and we can't. It's pretty simple." The women have been together for almost 10 years and since 2004 have been registered domestic partners, a legal relationship that in California carries most of the benefits and obligations of a full-fledged marriage.

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Can you explain law of slavery? Jesus said to be a good slave in Mathew? Why,is it wrong if it was okay by Jesus word of scripture? How come I can't have many wives like old testament? Im lost can you help me understand scripture? Old Testament or God Laws were updated by Jesus New Law? Why, is wrong to be gay? Old Law? Jesus said, Love all man unconditional? Why, is it wrong for gay's to marry. Old Law of God? New law of Jesus unconditionaly? Is this not double jepardy? We don't do it today's law, except with Gay people?Is this not double jepardy? A Double standard? I dont get it. I guess this is why so many say it contradicts! We say Love equal than say you can't get Married? Justify with old law when Jesus said, Love all man and old testament says love all man? If, so can I use it in Law today? Sounds good to me.I can have slaves? Updated law dont mean anything? We can still use old laws and new laws? What is Human Right. Is this not to be equal.What is unconditional then.I looked in dictionary and says without conditions. Is this not double jepordy? To say I love you unconditionally,except if your Gay.What about Gay Christians that dont want to sin by Adultry. We say we love them equal with limitations.Then use old scripture or Laws and say No? How is this fair? I'm lost? If we just got rid of Old Testament it wouldn't be confusing? Like our old Laws.We no longer use Old laws with new. Old Law of God,One Book.Law of Jesus another Book of laws. Do you see where I'm going. If a man stole a cow we used to hang them. Why not today? You do it in the Bible, it must be okay for us today? We can just make laws to fit us? So if I have many wives I can Justify with Old Laws like Old Testament. Why keep old law if new ones take its place? Thus old test. law and new test. law. Jesus said, Unconditionaly.And also said Meant to be between Man and Woman. Can I justify having two wives by old law? What does word Meant mean. I looked in dictionary it say Soposed to be. So I can have many still? Meant in law mean today. Did it change of something? Meant, man and woman. Does it say not man and man? Where is the limitations on it. Surely not in old law?Updated law of today dont allow that.Why would God make it differant, Is he not fair?Does he love one more than the other? Jesus said under no condition and we say yes we are then no you cant. What is that? Two most important Commandments,Mathew said Jesus Updated the Law and we use old law of God. No wonder people say, It contradict. Do you see where Im going. How is a lesser law hight than More important law. I know the truth! I just wanted you to see it. You would do better without old law of Moses, Just used Jesus New Testament Law. To use both wouldn't stand up in court. Unless Prejudiced? Do you catch my meaning.We do it to Gays and then use old law to justify over new law. You Guy don't even see it.Blind and now do you see!!I have been trying to tell people won't but won't listen? I just hear justification of old law of Moses.So Moses law more importand than New updated law?Im trying to tell the world something and get blown off. I know I had been going around it wrong.I just don't know what God's meaning is behind it.Something Im positive of. God gave me the gift of scripture yet I did not know how to tell anyone without thinking I'm crazy. I hope this one get's taken seriously. I know without a dought what I'm soposed to do but don't know how to tell ya.This is my best bet to use parable as Jesus to get point across without putting up a wall. I was blind and now I see. I was a Christian for long time to. I'd thought someone was crazy if opposite situation. Can't blame them plus it is for some reason. God only know though.I will see soon. I'm trying to tell them he's comming. Like a thier in the night. Lot shorter than you think. More like now.This is the Alpha of omega. I know you think, huh? He wants you to be ready. Think 2012 calendars stop. You think ah,maybe. I say no for sure. If you knew what I do you'd go nuts as anyone else in my shoe. He hints then I wait then bang out of know where I just jump and as high as I can. He is real. You know he's real. Forget the old Testament. Like old law of society.Read word for word in bible truth of scripture only new law not moses's. Read Mathew at least. Then read Rev. the same way. No more contradiction and you will see his comming. Pleas try it he does love you.Believe in him you shall not parrish but have eternal life.If you don't catch on to this message you safe. Wouldn't like a little less burden. "Justice is mine says", The Lord. I can maybe help you if you missed the meaning.It is for reason all is for reason. God's Ordained Rev. Parker 3

CHUCKY of CA 7:15AM January 28, 2010

In 1973 (37 years ago!) the American Psychological Association (APA) removed homosexuality from it's list of mental disorders. Current science had shown such thinking to be outdated and unsupported by scientific inquiry or objective, disciplined research.

As an extra piece of historical context, in 1997 the Council of Representatives of the APA overwhelmingly passed a resolution that, among other things, "urges all mental health professionals to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientation."

In August 2009, the APA governing board received the report of the Task Force on Appropriate Therapeutic Response to Sexual Orientation. It concluded:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

Bottom line was:

"...research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality..."

To suggest anything contrary is, I think, misleading. The APA has been quite clear, and for quite some time.

Darren of MN 12:11PM January 12, 2010

Hey, Rap of Ca, re your points: 1. Defense of Marriage Act is the law of the land, period, unless changed (unlikely). 2.Yes they are, no argument there. 3. I agree, although some Swedish studies infer inadequate pre-natal development. 4. I guess you mean they were conceived normally? Lesbians and turkey basters or gay adoption is NOT normal(i.e. biological). Did you snooze thru Biology 101? 5. Some undoubtably do, but psychiatry has treated homosexuality as abnormal for over 100 years. Are these PHD's ALL wrong? 6. Again, you failed human Sexuality 102. Reproduction is the only sexual function that prevents extinction. Love encompasses and expands this, but it is not absolutely necessary. It's a shame that these poor folks can't even begin to understand the true meaning of hetero love. I do support civil unions, but NO adoption, and NO federal or state monetary benefits!

christmastree of NY 10:46AM January 12, 2010

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