Your Thoughts on Kennedy's Tiff With His Bishop

Reader Comments
Back to blog

Dear brethrens,
First receive our greetings from here Kenya under the Lord's name.
I am happy to contact you through this Email.I wish that we share in Christ and Denounce Satan.Iam from kenya and I love to kwow more about God.I request that you assist me materially christian litare with our church members and fellow christians.Pray for all of us and support us where possible.Be blessed always .
My names are Francis Mangera Ombogo
P.o.Box 298,Ogembo Gucha,Kenya.
Tel;+254729043006

father francis mangera ombogo of 12:36AM June 04, 2010

http://priestsforlife.org/magisterium/earlychurchfathers/fatherscover.html
As an Orthodox Christian, abortion and euthanasia are equally abhorrent to me. There is no doubt that Christian teaching from the beginning was against abortion. There is no doubt that prior to Christ's life, there were arguments, both theological and civil, against abortion.
If one is going to use Augustinian arguments to support abortion prior to 20 weeks, one must not, in the 21st century, determine what is meant by "quickening." The mother seldom feels the baby move prior to 20 weeks (in her first pregnancy), or prior to 18 weeks (in subsequent pregnancies). However, ultrasound shows the fetus moving as early as 6 weeks post conception. Even sucking his thumb. Does this change the date of quickening? The heart starts beating at approximately 5 weeks. Does the movement of the heart count as quickening?
If this is so, then by Augustinian argument, abortion cannot be performed after 5-6 weeks post conception - under any circumstances.
The Orthodox Church has always held that termination of pregnancy at any stage is sinful. It absolutely is murder to do so voluntarily. The soul of the baby, created from the souls of the mother and father just as the body is created from the sperm and ovum of the father and mother, is destroyed prematurely.
So abortion destroys the body and "unhouses" the soul of the baby. It is a violent ending for the baby, who does, indeed, suffer terribly when being pulled apart.
Lord, have mercy! Blessings upon the Manhattan Declaration coalition!

Elizabeth W. Riggs, PhD, RN of GA 7:32AM December 02, 2009

For all of you who do not believe in Catholic teaching and/or God in general, don't use the child molestation, the earth was flat or any other excuse to throw the baby out with the bath water(pun intended). Stick to the issue at hand and what the Bishop said and did not say. Patrick may believe in the one true church but obviously doesn't believe in its teachings. So if you can't take communion and don't believe go somewhere else. Rhode Island was founded on the right that everyone can believe as he chooses. Unlike present England and the other colonies in the early days there is no state church I am not Roman Catholic in a state that is 87% Catholic but I respect many of their views. If you don't believe in God and the sanctity of life then you are free to believe what you want. Those who are well versed in philosophy might want to surf the net and read Pascals wager. Do your homework before you go on spouting all the mistakes of the Catholic church. AAmen are sinners in need of the Great Physician to heal them. Much has been done in Jesus name that is evil but to those who want to know God and repent of their sins anyone is welcome believe or not.

compassion in RI of RI 6:00PM December 01, 2009

"Your world and your country wallow in a cesspool of error, corruption, and debasement. Satan has set among you in the highest places of rule, giving them power for the destruction of human souls. These agents of hell have been placed in your schools to destroy your young; in your government to bring you to your knees before one who is not of God;

DC 10:12PM November 30, 2009

I used to be Catholic.

brooke of CA 4:02PM November 30, 2009

One cannot be Catholic and Pro-Choice. It matters not if it's described as abortion rights, a woman's health issue, or otherwise.
To answer the question, "Why doesn't he leave the Catholic Church and find one more in keeping with his beliefs?" For those that believe that the Catholic Church is the One True Church, to leave her would be unthinkable.
Bishop Tobin has succinctly explained what is required to be in good standing to receive communion in the Church and has reaffirmed what it means to be a Catholic. He hasn't told Patrick Kennedy what to do. He's instructed him on the teachings of the Church. And, yeah, one is "less a Catholic" if one doesn't follow the teachings. Harsh, but true.

CC of NE 1:38AM November 30, 2009

While reading the Archbishop’s words it is good to remember that the Catholic Church has often failed in it’s duty of doing God’s will on earth as it is in heaven.
Men have failed Christ from the beginning - even Peter, the Disciple chosen by Christ to build his Church, failed Him on the eve of his Crucifixion - as Christ knew he would. But as Catholics, we understand that even though the Church is often led by flawed men - It still contains the Eternal Truth, the words of God, and the “keys to the kingdom of heaven”. The sins of men can not change that simple truth.
Archbishop John J. Myers of Newark has previously addressed the controversy about Catholic lawmakers who favor and promote abortion.
"Catholics who publicly dissent from the Church’s teaching on the right to life of all unborn children should recognize that they have freely chosen by their own actions to separate themselves from what the Church believes and teaches. They have also separated themselves in a significant way from the Catholic community.
"The Church cannot force such people to change their position; but she can and does ask them honestly to admit in the public forum that they are not in full union with the Church.
"One who practices such dissent, even in the mistaken belief that it is permissible, may remain a Catholic in some sense, but has abandoned the full Catholic faith. For such a person to express ‘communion’ with Christ and His Church by the reception of the Sacrament of the Eucharist is objectively dishonest.”
As a result, Catholic voters and lawmakers must consider the serious implications of their actions.
"It is a time for honesty. I ask and urge that Catholic voters and Catholics in public life carefully consider their position if they find themselves in opposition to Church teaching in these matters. Sadly, I must point out that to continue down this road places them in danger of distancing themselves even more from Jesus Christ and from His Church."
The Archbishop also addressed the argument that abortion is only one issue of concern.
"Some might argue that the Church has many social teachings and the teaching on abortion is only one of them. This is, of course, correct. The Church’s social teaching is a diverse and rich tradition of moral truths and biblical insights applied to the political, economic, and cultural aspects of our society. All Catholics should form and inform their conscience in accordance with these teachings. But reasonable Catholics can (and do) disagree about how to apply these teachings in various situations."
"But with abortion (and for example slavery, racism, euthanasia and trafficking in human persons) there can be no legitimate diversity of opinion. The direct killing of the innocent is always a grave injustice. One should not permit unjust killing any more than one should permit slave-holding, racist actions, or other grave injustices. From the perspective of justice, to say, 'I am personally opposed to abortion but . . .' is like saying, 'I personally am against slavery, but I cannot impose my personal beliefs on my neighbor.'”
The Archbishops words should make clear to all - even Kennedys - the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding abortion and those who support it.

R.L. Schaefer of CA 7:51PM November 27, 2009

When will the craziness stop? when will intelligent men and woman come to their senses? stop depending on an invisible man in the sky to lead you, be your shepherd, and you follow like the sheep that you are. All it takes is "thought" to come out of your fog. Break those chains that your parents put on your minds.
There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world.
Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

Frank of WA 11:41AM November 27, 2009

Let's not forget that this bishop's organization is the same one that demanded that we accept the fact that the sun revolves around the earth; tortured and imprisoned those who dared to publicly deny that fact. But, that was then, now the're into other things like child molestation. What a terrible terrible way to be brought up, as a christian. Taught that you are a sinful person, so much for a child's self esteem.

Frank of WA 11:32AM November 27, 2009

I saw Bishop Tobin on the Chris Matthew's show. If this is the best the Catholics, which I am one, have for a Bishop, we need to legalize marriage for priests. He came across as a man of limited intelligence.
What makes me even angrier is that the Catholic Church knowingly let abuse of kids go on for years. Now that want to be all moral and such. Although I have great reservations about abortion, am I the one to decide. A book called Freakenomics was released that states that the the reason crime rate went down was due to Roe vs. Wade. Fewer unwanted children were brought into unloving environments. I am not sure I fully buy into the theory, but it does give one room for thought.
It appears that the church does well in poor countries. they discourage birth control. I have come to believe that the church almost thrives on poverty.
It is incidents like this that make me see Catholic priests more like single old bitter men and less like higher powers.

G. Cates of NC 8:41AM November 27, 2009