Consensus Between Gays and Religious Conservatives?

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The early Christian Church was Greek in origin but evolved into something Roman. It aligned with the military might of the great Empire and accordingly dragged that militant spirit into its theology. Sadly, in fulfilling the law, it lost the Spirit of the law. It became an instrument of religious hatred. Greece gave us great philosophers. Even the Romans emulated them. Think of Socrates. He was individualistic, alone in many ways, which gave rise to his sagacious philosophy. The key is "individualism." He was forced to commit suicide; in effect, he was murdered. He was accused of contaminating the people with his beliefs. He chose not to challenge the status quo but in obedience submitted to its authority. . . just for speaking his mind and the truth. Sound like Anyone else you know?
"Gay" is just a word for something that has always been a part of the family of man. Diversity is challenging for conservative Christians, because it requires a "self-emptying" of egoism, elitism and vanity in order to practise the precepts of Jesus. Diversity expands the family of man beyond the comfort zone for some. It requires of them personal responsibility in sifting out the truth of their faith--the real Gospel. People shirk responsibility and, like lambs to slaughter, prefer to be led around. Also, the modern evangelical movement in America has a capitalistic agenda hidden behind the pretext of religion, that is, its hierarchy does. This agenda has entered the political arena, and it is dangerous. Does it rimind you of another scenario in space and time? A lust for power and privilege born of pride and prejudice is a recipe for disaster: fascism. You don't think it can happen now? Think again.

William of IN 4:42AM November 20, 2009

We are all adults. We must all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. Lets not bash one another on the head with biblical facts or versus. If a being is troubled with their sexual identity and wants to be helped by the christian community then shut the hell up and let them get help. If they want to hang at the local and pick up a trick for the night, let them be. Mind your own business and let each and everyone find their way. Some lead to the kingdom of heaven and some to the pit of hell. I am not saying who's is who's. Thats up to God to decide should you so believe. If you dont, shut up. If you do shut up. Each and everyone of us will stand before the lord. You as an individual must decide whether you believe or dont. You alone must account for your life, no one else can. If you remember... seek the answer and you shall find it. Seek and ye shall find. Look, be aware, wake up. Stop blaming one another for your problems, take accountability for your own actions. Plant seeds and let them take root. Knock and the door will be opened. When the door is slammed in your face, wipe your feet and move on. For you struggling with the pains of life, close your mind and open your heart. Shut out the world and allow the spirit of God to enter within you. Pick who you want to serve and serve. If you get it wrong, its never too late to do what is right. WHATS RIGHT??? SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND. To all those not struggling, shut the hell up and let the man woman or child stand alone, they will find their way. Help them when you can. God has called them to his kingdom long before you and I were ever in the world, so stop with the name calling. The bible bashing. Love one another as yourselves. It was the final law/commandment. Follow that one and you wont break the other 10 or so. But here is the law on sex. If you are engaged in a sexual practice outside the bonds of marriage, you are committing an abomination. It dont matter if its same sex, tri sex, hetero sex... ITS SEX. Not to be shared outside of marriage, a word created by the bible. By God between a woman and a man. Yes it really sucks that we have same sex emotions and feelings that are so strong it leads us to sin by the bible standard. GET OVER IT!!! Obey the law or be judged in the end. It is your decision. You have to account for what you do in the flesh. I have to account for what I do in the flesh. It is my cross and I bear it daily, you do the same, leave the judgment to Christ. Its His throne, his kingdom and his universe. Whether you like it or not. In the mean time, love one another as I love you, as you love yourself, as your mother and father love you, as you love your child. Love Peace Mercy and Grace, that is the way of it. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.
Sincerely
The Volta

Troy of MN 12:38AM September 17, 2009

Dr. Shade, I wont argue with you. There is no reason to do that. The thing we need to do is admit that we dont agree, accept that we dont understand everything and accept eachother as humans with differing views. I can not say that I know what God knows or why He created everything with such differing characteristics...I just know that He loves us all and wants us to love eachother....On another note, have you watched the HBO series TRUE BLOOd? Interesting how this series is similar to how some people treat gay people (esp. those who say they are Christian....very interesting). Good luck and I hope your life becomes more loving and respectful of others sir.

jcam of AR 1:37PM August 11, 2009

Dr. Shade, I am sorry for your ignorance. Read the Greek translation of the story about Sodom. Again, you are wrong...you are reading a translation and not the original greek my friend. As for being saved, no you can not say who is or isnt (even by their words). The problem is that you consider being gay a sin and abnormal. I, and many others, know that I was born this way, and for me being gay is normal (as is for all the other millions and millions). You have no idea what is in my heart and what Christ has done for me, so dont try to say anything about that. Did you choose your eye color, hair color, or even skin color. No, of course you didnt. I did not choose my sexuality either, but God knows why and it will be revealed to me when I meet Him in heaven. You know, I try to be kind, loving, caring, accepting and helpful of others. I think of what others need and I try to meet that need (I have gathered up food, clothing, blankets, pillows, etc... and taken it to the homeless that live on the river here...I give money to those in need, not just my church....I try to love ALL people as we are commanded to do...I do not point the finger and say "sinner" or "you're going to hell", it is not my job. God knows each person individually and loves ALL His sons and daughters. Dr. Shade, I can read from your response that you are full of hate and anger (why is that?). Try to hear me when I say, love all, judge not less you be judged, encourage all and help all....I doubt you will hear this except in your own interpretation (read about Jesus in the Book of John and see that He never mentions homosexuality...why?)....read the Greek translation and get educated before you spew hate and vengeance...it just hurts people and is not what Jesus wanted us to do. You are like a Pharisee, exactly what Jesus went up against....sad...I dont say this out of anger or vengeance, only wish you could understand (which you cant because you are not in that situation....your eyes are a different color, your hair is a different color as well as your skin...so you cant understand...just admit that you dont know and cant understand, thats all). If you call homosexuality a sin, then read the hundreds of laws God gave in the Old Testament and see if you are a sinner....100% chance you are sir. NOT ONE HUMAN CAN GO 1 DAY WITHOUT SINNING (only one did that, Jesus). And, if you tell me homosexuality is a sin and that Jesus came so that we would not keep committing the same sin again and again, then tell me what sin you keep committing over and over again.....I hope one day that only love and acceptance exist instead of this hate and judgement. I am so sorry that your ears are closed to hearing and your eyes are blind to seeing....very sad, but the world is full of people like you who say they are Christians (but words are cheap) and judge, hate and interpret the Bible according to what they have been told and think (instead of getting the original Greek themselves for the truth).SAD

jcam of AR 1:28PM August 11, 2009

Let's take a look at Genesis 19:4-5. "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'" Now, let's go ask Jude about this situation. "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion..."-Jude 7 (Both quotes are NIV). Notice, neither one says homosexuality, but both condemn it.
There are many views of morality, but only one can be correct for we can not live our lives by moral relativism. Why? C.S. Lewis pointed out the obvious in that what we call morally good under relativist views is not really morally good, instead something that meets our fancy. And we know that doing good does not always coincide with what we want or fancy. Also, what happens two views contradict? Relativists say nothing, but we know that is not true. A relativist who sees theiving to be immoral and is robbed by someone who feels that such things are virtuous will demand justice. But wait, his/her view can not let them do that because everybody's moral views are equally valid. So now, there may be many views over homosexuality being good or evil, but only one can be correct. And if you believe in God and read His word, you'll find it is immoral.
Indeed, I have not followed all of the different social laws of the Torah, however I am a Gentile. The Law of the OT that binds me is the ethical standard of God. This is the same law damns liars, adulterers, murderers, homosexuals, theives, blasphemers, etc. This law I have broken since it has been written on my heart and my conscience accusing me of wickedness (Romans 2:15). But praise to Christ Jesus through whom the law of damnation has been annulled and the law of righteous condemnation has been made possible (Romans 8:1-3). It is by obedience to this law will I be declared righteous in God's sight (Romans 2:13).
I can not say who is saved and who isn't, but your words show that you are not one who believes in the written word of God or His ethical standard. A believer would not say that God purposefully created him/her to do what He has already deemed evil.
I have no children at this time. If I did and they were hurt by what God's word tells them, then it is proof that Christianity is not a religion that brings unity but divisiveness (Luke 12:51-53).

Dr. Shade of NC 10:32AM August 03, 2009

Read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah again and find out what it really says (not just a translation). It is about the citizens of those towns not taking care of their homeless and needy and other sins. The true version does not speak of homosexuality. Many uneducated people believe it was about homosexuality...but they are wrong. Have you given shelter to the homeless or fed the hungry? Christians are shown by their actions, not what they say they are. Also, they problem here is that you say it is a sin. There are many views on homosexuality being right or wrong, BUT, it is all in interpretation. The word homosexuality did not appear in the Bible until the 1940s and since then hate has caused people to judge and condemn what they dont understand (and there is no way you can understand unless you are it that position). There is no way a human can tell another human that they are not saved...it is between God and the individual....if I am condemned so are you Dr. Shade, since I am sure you break many of the old laws God gave the jews...I you have children or grandchildren, God bless them...because if one of them ever told you that he/she was gay, it would be a knife to their heart to hear what you think. So sad...

jcam of AR 4:13PM August 02, 2009

What you say is blasphemous! "I am a Christian and know that God made me this way, WITHOUT mistake" How can you be a Christian and say such things?!? If it was not a mistake for you then why did God make a big deal out of it by making it Law for the Jews or having the apostles and New Testament writers warn against sexual immorality? Surely the people of the early churches or citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were just doing what God created them to do. Yet both of these people were condemned.
I have accepted Christ's teaching and it says to repent (Matt. 4:17, Luke 13:3). You say we are no longer under the Law. Indeed we are not because of Christ's death and Resurrection. Yet, you failed to read Scripture that says we are not to continue in sin because of grace (Romans 6). We are to judge people's character or else what does it mean by not giving what is sacred to dogs or avoiding false prophets who are seen according to their fruit? Yes, we can not throw the 1st stone, but Christ told the prostitute to leave her life of sin.
Salvation has been made for us, but we must first repent. That is why baptism is be made publicly. For it is a testimony in that you have made Jesus your Savior, you repented of your sins, and have killed your sinful nature by giving it over to God to be crucified with Christ.
Yes, we are no longer held to the law of sin and death, but are under the law of the Spirit of life. Can we be under this law of the Spirit, this same Spirit of God who moved and divinely inspired men to write the Bible, if we condone that which is evil? Doesn't this nullify what God has done for us?
Now, there are struggles for Christians. We were not promised a rose garden without thorns on the branches. Temptation is indeed everywhere and those who believe may sin, but we are to hold ourselves accountable and to look to Christ as our standard. We are to encourage each other in doing good, not to condone what is evil.

Dr. Shade of NC 4:46PM August 01, 2009

To all you people that sit in judgement over others (esp. this matter), read the old testament laws. There are hundreds. God put these in place for the health and wellfare of His people at the time. Most of these laws are gone now. Why is that??? Also, if you believe, read the new testament. Jesus said the old law is done away with...He gave us the new law...He died for us out of love!

jcam of AR 9:33PM July 31, 2009

It amazes me that people will turn a "blind eye" or "deaf ear" on the truth and then say they believe in the Truth. Dee, you are right, Tom's reality is not yours, it is his. EVERYONE has their own reality....you have yours, Tom has his, my ex-wife has hers, and I have mine. Everyone on earth has their own reality! That is why you never want to walk in someone else's shoes! As for people coming to you, Dee, when you are judged, ridiculed and hated for who you are it is sad, depressing and isolating. Those people that have come to you just need acceptance, or you will feed the fire of despair for them. Dee, you have not experienced this, but, I bet you would understand if you were in that situation somehow. Anyone treated as an outcast, hated and ridiculed would surely want to change...TO BE ACCEPTED! Even if that meant trying to change who they are and live a lie. Anyway, good luck to you Dee. I hope that you will someday understand that we are all in this together with the same hopes! Tom, I hope and pray that you have a good and happy life...you deserve it, I know. I know what it is like to live thru this hell on earth (with all the so called "christians" preaching hate), but, someday our lives will be over and I know that God will say "you did great my son, you tried to make a difference in others lives, they just couldnt believe" and I know He will say "I have a place reserved for you, come sit with Me". I BELIEVE THAT!

jcam of AR 9:08PM July 31, 2009

It is a sad day when we have to discuss this AGAIN! Nobody chooses to be gay (ridiculous to say that they do) just like nobody chooses to be black, white, hispanic...whatever. I am a Christian and know that God made me this way, WITHOUT mistake, and wants me to be happy (as He does for all His children). I know He looks down on us and just shakes His head in disbelief...probably thinking, "I have created some ignorant human beings...why dont they understand, love and accept all people even when they are different?" Hmmmm...that seems to go along with Jesus' teachings of "love one another", "do not judge others or you will be judged more harshly" and "let him who has not sinned cast the 1st stone". As a Christian, I do not look at others as less than, or that they need to change, or the color of the skin....I accept diversity as God's grand design. Too bad these people that hates gay people cant grasp what Christ and God are teaching...let it go and just love one another, thats all! I like who I am finally...I am gay...I have 3 boys, twins that are 19 and a 9 year old...they are great kids and are learning to accept and love all!!! Too bad their mother cant....very sad.

jcam of AR 8:46PM July 31, 2009