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Report: No Communion Order to Follow Sebelius to Washington

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^ An enemy of democracy? You must be kidding! The one institution that consistently presents a mayor obstacle to totalitarian regimes has always been the catholic church.

Ioannes of FL 3:24PM May 05, 2012

I love it when non-Catholics talk about the Catholic Church when they don't have a freaking clue as to what the Church actually says and why.
If anyone actually bothers to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church Part Three - Section Two Paragraphs 2270-2275. It spells out, in plain language why the Church is opposed to Abortion and the penalties are clearly spelled out. The fact of the matter is most Catholics are getting sick and tired of politicians who profess being Catholic but refuse to uphold the tenants of the Church in their personal lives and only trot out their Catholicism when trolling for votes.
Separation of Church and State does not mean you check your religion and morality in at the door when you become a politician. Separation of church and state was about the dangers of things like Islamic Sharia law where the distinction between religion and governance are non-existent.
Personally, I think the only reason Sebelius is upset about being denied communion and is for the loss of possible political support she could glean from being Catholic.
There are times when I wish the Vatican would bring back vitandus (shunned, literally "to be avoided"), excommunication because it would solve a number of issues when it come to those who flagrantly and purposefully ignore church doctrine and law.

Joseph of CA 5:09PM August 18, 2010

+1

soundtracks of AL 6:20AM July 17, 2009

Regarding the tax exempt status of the Church, speak out on any issue. But when you attempt to use religious authority to coerce some one you cross the line in a democratic society. For centuries the Catholic Church has been seen as an enemy of democracy. John Kennedy and many others worked to abolish that image. Now the bishops appear ready to move boldly back into the middle ages.

Robin of AZ 9:06PM April 01, 2009

Great of Ohio raises some interesting points. But let's examine them in more detail. First, there is in the USA a legal distinction between a living (i.e. born) person and a fetus. The Catholic Church (and some other religions) may consider them equally persons and therefore equally deserving of life but the US government is based on law, not the morality of the Catholic Church. Second, if one adopts her German comparison, the USA is 8.33 times more evil than Nazi Germany, a conclusion few in this country would accept (well, perhaps Iran would). Third, the implication is that Catholic politicians are required not only to practice and uphold Catholic teachings in their own lives but to attempt vigorously to force them upon the entire nation as well. No other group of Catholics is charged with this responsibility and in fact it isn't even applied consistently across all Catholic social teachings. For example, Tim Kaine, as Catholic governor of Virginia, stated that he would uphold Vignia's laws on capital punishment even though his church's teaching was against it. There were no comments from the bishops. In addition, no Catholic politician of whom I'm aware has ever been asked to support an increase in the minimum wage, universal health care (especially for children); examples of Catholic teachings on social justice, or to oppose the Iraq war (which the pope condemned), under threat of excommunication if they didn't. Why, for consistency's sake, not? Abortion, gay marriage, and birth control are sexually-related issues and perhaps sex is, well, simply more sexy as a topic. And 1,000 years of clerical celibacy has likely skewed the hierarchy's frame of reference towards sexually-related ssues.

E. Thomas Dowd of OH 12:28PM April 01, 2009

I would argue that there is an inherent difference between murdering innocent unborn as if they were less than livestock and humanely executing an individual who has committed an atrocity, been tried, and probably appealed many times. Yes, in the eyes of the Church they are both wrong. But one appears to far more morally impermissible than the other.

JJ sexy pants of IL 5:15AM April 01, 2009

I am a cradle Catholic and have parents who have been very active in Catholic organizations for many years. I am most of my family, including a relative who is a religious sister, have always been strong Democrats and will continue to be. Our State of Iowa proudly voted for Obama and he did very well in counties with large Catholic populations. I'm not a one issue voter and most folks who are have already made up their mind a long time ago as to whether they will follow the bishops.

EJ of IA 2:10PM March 31, 2009

The tide is turning on those who want to have the I did not personnaly have a slave, but slavery is the law of the land and so I support it. Oh yeah, we are talking about the I am peronnaly opposed to killing babies in the womb, but it is legal and thus I support it.
What many do not seem to understand is that indeed there are non negotiable issues that all Catholics who take their faith seriously must life by or their soul is lost to grave sin which also means you are not to present yourself to Eucharist which would mean the soul is now burdened with another sin. The bishops are doing exactly what this woman needs in her life which is to help her on her journey hopefully to heaven. That is the job of the Bishop and why so many say that it is an act of love for them to act in this way while she remains at odds with Church teaching.
During the time of Hitler, many germans did nothing to stop the Nazi's who by the Nuremburg laws dictated the treatment of various people including 6 million jews. Today we see their actions of doing nothing as part of the greater evil that was allowed to take place. So to in the future will generations look back at this time of holocaust of 50,000,000 babies and ask what each of us did to end the butchering of babies in the womb and other innocent human life in embryo form created by science with another grave evil of invitro fertilization. Now we see how amazining astute that Pope Paul VI was with Humanae Vitae.
Thank God that our bishops are finally letting everyone know what the Church teaches and making sure those who are in error know and helping them so as not commit grave sin on top of that with the Eucharist.
As to who should get elected to office,I think we have had far too much of those who think something is evil so they are personally opposed, but bring that evil to life in the government. I will take a politician who stands up and says what he is for and what he or she will do and then do it any time over what he have today.

Great of OH 12:08AM March 31, 2009

Why should non-Catholics vote for Catholic candidates for public office if those candidates will just do whatever the Vatican dictates with regard to their public policy decisions (not just their private lives)? When JFK ran for president, he had to convince the public that he would not be the Pope's puppet. The US would not surrender its sovreignty to the Vatican. He would serve the whole public, not just the Catholics, and therefore wouldn't subject government policy to the wills and whims of the Pope, Vatican, bishops, et al. And the public was conviced, and voted for JFK.
Today's Catholic officials, by punishing Catholic public officials that don't follow the Vatican's dictates wrt public policy, are sending a message to non-Catholics: "In order to be a good Catholic, Catholic public officials must subject public policy to the dictates of the Church." This is the opposite of what JFK ran on.
If it becomes accepted that Catholic public officials must follow the dictates of the Vatican wrt their public office, then non-Catholics will not vote for any Catholics to be in public office, and righty so.
Keep it up bishops, if you don't want Catholics elected to any public office.
One more thing: The Catholic Church is against the death penalty, yet Catholic bishops do NOT deny communion to Catholic Republican public officials that favor and even carry out the death penalty. That is total hypocrisy, and hypocrisy is one of the worst sins that there is, according to Jesus's teachings.

Pepe of WA 5:13AM March 30, 2009

It is about time our bishops started taking a firm stand against political figures who are pro abortion.
Many Catholics actually voted for Obama. Where was our leadership? One priest actually told his parishioners that whoever had voted for Obama needed to confess it.
Good for him. We need more men of the cloth with courage to say it like it is. We are becoming a Church of uncatechised cafeteria Catholics.
Sebelius, Pelosi, et al, can be excommunicated and go to another church that allows the picking and choosing from a menu of immoralities, justifications, and rationales.

Barb of AK 1:58AM March 30, 2009