NIH Director Francis Collins Takes the Lead in Reconciling Science and Religion

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I transposed verse numbers but Isaiah 45:7 does have the Lord saying "I create evil." The NASB version says God creates calamity. Other versions say God creates disaster & brings prosperity. Lamentations 3;38 says both good & ill come from the Mouth of the Most High. Creationists insist God created everything, so that would have to include evil. Patrick's comment says gases remain in bodies after death. They are purtrifying gases as part of disintegration & are no longer an exchange of carbon dioxide for oxygen. He asks "Where does life go?" It goes nowhere, it simply ends. There is no soul or spirit. The word "science" comes from "to know." Only pseudo-scientists say they believe in God & the scientific method. Fake scientists sometimes have "degrees" from religious "colleges or universities" but they have been "studying the Gods." Some folks who have scientific credentials betray their profession. They make lots of money by selling books, videos & tapes, about their faith, knowing Creationists will gladly buy their products that defend Creationism. Going off-topic as usual, Schaefer posts his usual sermon and adds an insult about dim bulbs.

auradawn veirs of CA 3:44AM January 10, 2010

"Authentic scientists can't believe in religion because they know so much about the natural sciences." Scheesch....
Why don't you speak to Sir Martin Rees, probably the top astrophysicist on the planet or Stephen Hawking the best theoretical physicist - both Christians. I could list a hundred more - but just start there.
Your bulb is soooo dim - I fear it must soon wink out completely.

R.L. Schaefer of CA 8:22PM January 06, 2010

You do realize there is no Isaiah 7:45? Chapter seven ends with verse twenty-five and its talking about plowing, briers and cattle. Isaiah 45:7 is what you are looking for and miscontruing. Evil here does not refer to sin and wickedness. Most translations have disasters or calamity contrasting the preceding character trait of God being the source of well-being. Therefore this evil refers to God allowing suffering to happened because of our sinfulness. You twisting Scripture to fit your worldview. It should be noted though that not all calamity or sufferings are results of sin. See Job and the fall of man.
Scientists don't know everything. They don't how quorks can be in two places at once. They even know what started our universe. Science can not tell us what happened yesterday and neither can it tell us right from wrong. By the way, Frances Collins, Isaac Newton, Kepler, Copernicus, and others were and are believers. Yet they set the foundation of what we know of the "natural sciences."
Something has left the body because gases still remain in bodies even after death. But where did the life which was in person go? This is what the ancients called a soul.
I don't get it aura. You misquote your opponents, make statements which are not true nor can be defended, and you offer nothing terms of showing how religion and science can not coexist.

Patrick of KY 6:06PM January 06, 2010

Isaiah 7:45 says: "I form the light,and create darkness: make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Believers are expected to take the Bible literally, so why do they pray to "be delivered from evil?" There are no gods, but some people claim they are "born sinners who are so bad they need to be threatened with Hell." Or they must be good so they won't be "kept out of Heaven." As for being wise, Scripture writers were very ignorant. They lived before it was known breathing is an exchange of gases..carbon dioxide breathed out, exchanged for oxygen breathed in from plant life. Holy Book authors noticed dying people stopped breathing & thought something invisible left the body. They called it a "soul or spirit." Religion is founded on the wrong guess that there is a soul and it must be "saved from going to Hell so it can go to Heaven." Authentic scientists can't believe in religion because they know so much about the natural sciences.

auradawn veirs of CA 1:23AM January 06, 2010

God has promised to end suffering and evil at the end of time. Many people think that because God has yet to end evil and suffering in the world He does not want to end it or is unable. However, a quick look at the Bible shows that He is giving humanity a period of grace so that all who wish to be saved.

Dryfire of IL 12:25PM January 01, 2010

There is more than the monotheistic beliefs of the God of the Mideast. Science is not precluded by most religions. The human ability to hope--for avoiding death and for having a Being to look out for them--gives comfort. Atheists must put their hope in people. But looking at human history, both God and people have failed to assure peace and prosperity to all. I found a good discussion or God and state in the book on human values (Book 4) of the free ebook series "In Search of Utoia" (http://andguliverreturns.info)

Rish Conrad of AZ 3:59AM January 01, 2010

I like what Einstein said about science and God, Everything before creation belongs to God everything after belongs to science. Religon is a creation of man on how to worship God and has nothing to do with whether or not you believe in a Deity.

Candor of CA 9:32PM December 31, 2009

Until radicals on each side stole the podium during the debates and discussions.
As the previous poster mentioned, not all scientists are friendly. Take a look at Richard Dawkins and the other three members of the Four Horsemen of New Atheism.
Science has found that the universe does indeed have a beginning. The Bible agrees with this (Genesis 1:1). The universe and our planet is structured for life (see the Creation story in Genesis), specifically human life.
Some believe the Bible's lack of details of the cosmos, the internal structure of atoms, biological hazards like germs, the age of the earth, etc. show that Judaism and Christianity are "myths" or "fables." What they fail to consider is that the ancients were not ignorant idiots. Moses was a very intelligent man as was his ancestor Jacob. They were, though, very limited in their knowledge of the world around them just as a third grader is limited in knowledge when compared to a senior high student.
If people were to realize that the Bible does not contradict modern science, they may see much of the anger and disagreement between believers and atheists is just over-blown skirmishes.
Frances Collins, J.P. Moreland, Copernicus, Kepler, Newton, and others are very intelligent men, but they do believe in a Supreme being that was not of this universe. If we dismiss the thinking of people because of their possible religious biases, then we should do the same for those with naturalistic prejudices. This would be the only way to be "tolerant".

Patrick of KY 2:44PM December 31, 2009

Dear Clay and Thomas,
It's nice to see that you're both so objective. So the fault is all that of religion, eh?
You mean to tell me that scientists aren't at all hostile toward religion? That's a really tough pill to swallow. I'm not a churchgoing guy, but I have to tell you that there are elements on both sides of this debate that have engaged in mischaracterization and near-slanderous rhetoric.
Maybe you two could learn to avoid blaming the other side for all the problems and find something other than arrogance to deal with this. It's not all religion here. Scientists have contributed cheerfully and ungracefully to the problem. Your attitudes come across as a bit puerile

Mark McCarty of VA 10:00AM December 31, 2009

It's wrong to single out Christianity here. The root of the conflict between science and religion lies in religion's claim about nature when its real province is metaphysics. See my essay at http://open.salon.com/blog/clay_farris_naff/2009/12/24/christmas_reflections_on_science_and_religion for more
Clay Farris Naff
Lincoln, NE
wwww.claynaff.com

Clay Farris Naff of NE 9:36PM December 30, 2009