Last Post on Joe the Plumber

Would You Hire Yourself MJP?

MJP, you miss the point. If I want to hire someone who is incompetent, woe to me. But who would hire you to represent them in court? To engage in neurosurgery on my brain? How do I go about choosing someone to do these things for me? Do I look at a certificate on the wall to make me feel safe that this person has done a good job? Absolutely not. I ask friends, I search the internet, I look for other customer's satisfaction.

Stop being so very afraid of new ideas that you clearly have not thought through. Licensing ironically leads to LOWER quality standards, not higher.

Danny of IL @ Oct 23, 2008 10:33:53 AM

Joe the Plumber " liscensing"?

So if I take this argument a little further down the road, then I guess the marketplace will determine if my Doctor is fit to practice, or my lawyer will understand the legal system and represent me competently.No Certification needed.

I always wanted to be a neurosurgeon and in fact bought and read a couple of books on it. Give me holler should you need brain surgery. I'm sure I'll do just as well as any state licensed M.D. I'll be happy to plead your case if you're indicted for murder as well. I've watched a lot of "Law and Order" and think I can get you off. - cheap.

didn't have to invest in all that training to pass the bar.

Certification of competence in a trade or profession is only one part of the equation. There are trade groups, and professional organizations that insure standards.

What is proposed here is that meeting standards, or quality in performance be abandoned to the consensus of the mob, or believing and trusting what you read on the internet.

There are a lot of places in the world where this in effect. Generally the electricity is on a few hours a day, the plumbing leads to a ditch in the street and the local doctor knows more about reading the entrails of a chicken then common medical treatments. Not to worry about information off the internet as no one knows what that is. The only net around is for fishing.

When I read stuff like this I become afraid. Very afraid.

We are definitely circling the drain, provided Joe got the hook up right

MJP of NY @ Oct 22, 2008 21:29:07 PM

License?

Simply because someone pays for a piece of paper that says they are "licensed" or "certified" does not mean they are, in fact, competent to do anything more than purchase a piece of paper. Contractors with licenses and certifications routinely do substandard work and rip people off.

I have been doing new construction, remodeling and roofing for 25 years, no "license" or "certification", and the second thing inspectors say, right after saying "Yes, this all passes" is "Do you need more work?" because all my work is of superior quality. No license or certificate involved.

2Hotel9 of PA @ Oct 22, 2008 18:27:38 PM

Airlines

A positive example of this in play would be the airlines. Since their deregulation, airlines have become, on an order of magnitude, much safer. It is absolutely not in the interest of an airline to have a crash. The usual consequence of this is that they are forced to go out of business as no one will fly on their planes anymore. Now that airlines are held responsible (by the marketplace, which is a better regulator than the government will ever be), there are virtually no crashes.

Danny of IL @ Oct 22, 2008 18:24:23 PM

Courageous

Matt,

I'm glad you did another post on this. It is an important idea that most people do not comprehend. The government 'licensing' program does most certainly not ensure quality, only we as individuals can do that. Unfortunately, most people are so knee jerk when it comes to this, and assume that all profit seeking actors in markets are prone to cutting corners and the like, that we need the government to rein in those evil people. Unfortunately, it is most often these government 'workers' that are lazy and incompetent.

And this is not to say that licensing would not exist in a market environment. In fact, there would be numerous licenses given by private group who would be MORE selective than government. Walmart just raised their quality standards for imported goods WELL ABOVE those of government standards in order to satisfy their customers and to assure their safety and well being. It is in the interest of Walmart that they do this, they do not need government to do this for them.

A perfect case of this is Mattel and lead toys from China. They followed all regulations yet lead toys still made it through. Instead of being able to actively prosecute Mattel for this nonsense, Mattel was able to get away relatively unscathed because they had followed these regulations. Had Mattel been able to be held more accountable, they would have had to proactively monitor these issues, rather than reactively responding to reactive regulations.

It is important to hold people responsible for their actions. Regulations are usually written by the very corporations whom they are enforced upon. They often raise the barriers of entry for smaller, new entrants into the field that would do a better job providing those very services. It is not necessary for us to regulate every nook and cranny of the economy, it is more important that we hold actors responsible for the bottom line.

Danny of @ Oct 22, 2008 18:21:19 PM

Just think of the lawsuits that would ensue if all plumbers, electrician's, carpenters and contractors worked on public buildings, homes, hospitals, schools or any other domain that people gather, and an accident were to happen. Just as you wouldn't want a mechanic performing surgury on your body, so to do we expect competently qualified, certified and licensed individuals to plumb our buildings.

Susan Prewitt of WA @ Oct 22, 2008 16:49:03 PM