Obama Stimulus: Less Than 25 Percent is Actually Stimulus

Your case for "less than 25% stimulus" is a weak argument.

You label items in the bill as being an "agenda" item (based on your subjective opinion alone), and then without any apparent reason other than that label you've affixed, you declare the item not to provide stimulus. "Stimulus" and "agenda" are not mutually exclusive, of course. In fact, a stimulus that also serves a longer term agenda, is a good thing. Why would you want to throw money at something, and only get short term results, when you could also get longer term results?

Your criticisms of "Green" are equally not well thought out. Before evaluating the relative economic viability of "green" vs "dirty" technology, let's first try shifting government spending away from subsidies to oil and gas industry and away from military spending to fight trillion dollar wars in Iraq (among other places) and take into account the health costs and quality of life costs associated with polluted waters and air, and instead invest that money and cost savings in a "Green" infrastructure. What impact does that have on the relative economic viability of the two approaches now? Not only would investment in "Green" infrastructure provide a stimulus, yes, it is ALSO an investment in our future (both security and economic future)... much the same way that investment in the Interstate Highway and the Internet infrastructure were both immediate economic stimulus and an investment in our future.

Just imagine where we would be know if the U.S. government HAD NOT invested money into the invention and creation of the Internet. It's the single most important technology driving the American economy right now, and it was created, almost entirely, by government investment. It's hard to imagine how the Internet could have come about without the government and out Universities making it happen.

But you want to just throw money into a "stimulus" that gets spent and has no long-term lasting impact? What sense does that make?

Mark LeBay of WI @ Feb 06, 2009 14:30:56 PM

Scared

I am 20 years old, and gay, but I must say, all of this scares the hell out of me. I am all for equal rights, which is a big factor in me supporting Obama. But I must say, I think I would rather take a hit in the "rights" department, than see this stimulas plan go through. Right now, we need something that is going to boost the economy, NOW! Not democratic agendas that may or may not help the future of this world. I for one, would rather see the world get a little less green, than see my neighbors move into a homeless shelter. This is our lives people. Before you jump on the Obama band-wagon, do a little research. Please!

Ty of ID @ Feb 06, 2009 13:54:56 PM

Wall Street economics: Stimulous and the Agenda

Gosh if the stimulous package is really only 24% real stimulous, then we need more of whatever is in that 24%... I notice you don't make any suggestions, I suppose its better to be a critic than to be out there in the cold with a position.

Wall Street economics has put us where we are. No investment in the future because quarterly earnings are the only thing that mattered. I wouldn't take the agenda stuff off the table... because the jobs of the future (if there is going to be one) will need to be green. Shame on us for not having had a forward looking energy policy a long time ago. Here we are instead playing catch up on technology we actually developed decades ago. Gov't policy re: renewable portfolio standards and buy "made in America" will stimulate private sector investment, create green collar jobs and requires no cash (of course the free market people will scream about protectionism). We need jobs and can't afford to have all the wind turbines and solar panels being imported just because our government (run by the fossil fuel dinosaurs eating diets of leafy greens in the form of campaign contributions)didn't support those industries when they clearly should have years ago. Exxon doesn't need any more subsidies; those funds can be redirected and perhaps best used for the items in the 24% that represent real stimulous... (like say increased unemployment benefits, raising minimum wage, more funding for training, expanded health care to cover the unemployed and uninsured, more funds for infrastructure and mass transit). The past 8 years (and the preceeding 16) have let down America and the world. We have a long steep climb ahead.... I hope Obama's people have the will and the heart to lead us out of the abyss.

Jessica Flagg of NY @ Feb 03, 2009 16:35:02 PM

You know what would create jobs?

Domestic oil production. Tens of thousands of jobs at zero cost, plus additonal tax revenue. Stopped by Democrats.

El Gordo @ Feb 03, 2009 10:23:02 AM

Re: 1/4 of Pie better than none

First, the bailout, albeit an awful plan to begin with, was never intended to be a stimulus package so I don't where you come up with "proved to be zero stimulus." That's like suggesting that the Steelers have proven not to be a good BASEBALL team. Apples and Oranges.

Your math is fuzzy, too, even if you were right in your analysis. 25% more of zero is still zero.

A stimulus bill should be used to stimulate an economy, not be a surreptitious attempt at social engineering.

You obviously haven't read the bill.

What you can't seem to get is that if you waste a stimulus package on what are effectively welfare programs, there is no possibility of return on the investment, the money is wasted and we're worse off than we started.

Shawn of NV @ Feb 02, 2009 14:32:40 PM

More pork, as expected

Impeccable speaking (acting) ability and an air of confidence only go as far as the inauguration. Many people are impressed with Obama's linguistics, many are impressed with all the breaks he's going to give to those who don't work, at the expense of those who do. Many people have portrayed the president on t.v. over the years, and have the same theatrical prowess, with about the same credentials. If you don't have the experience or knowledge to at least approach your first project with some actual intelligence and sense, you can only convey a false sense of capability for so long, right about up until your first proposal. Unfortunately, many people who voted for Obama are not very conscious of the political arena at all and couldn't care less, and didn't know that for eight years, Obama did virtually nothing as senator but keep his chair warm. That's his proven track record. The best excuse I've heard for voting for Obama is "Well, he can't mess things up any more than they already are." Wow, so let's really throw everything away, right? What a copout. News flash: Things can get a lot worse, and someday soon, Bush, although not my favorite, probably won't look so bad. Especially to hard-working people who pull their own weight.

mike of IL @ Feb 02, 2009 14:20:58 PM

What did you expect?

To all the Americans that voted in this government, what did you expect? The wolves are guarding the henhouse now and there will be casualties.High energy cost did contribute to the pain but Corporate greed is the plain and simple root of this current mess. Has anyone raised the idea of updating Corporate law to insure that public corporations must act for the public good?

And to everyone with a short memory, 911, Katrina, ring a bell? These things are expensive to deal with and have also driven our economy to a downturn. I still credit GWB for preventing a economic collapse after either of these events.

I was afraid of this new government but it's much worse than I feared and I hope the US will survive this HUGE mistake of OBAMANOMICS.

Chris Petty of GA @ Feb 02, 2009 13:58:58 PM

If you'll recall

The second half of the 700 billion was sent out at Obama's request. GW didn't do a lot of things right, but you can't put this one on him.

Greg of AZ @ Feb 02, 2009 13:45:36 PM