Teachers Offer Conflicting Views on AP Program's Rapid Growth

As a professor that overseas both college courses and high school AP courses (this is the model in our state), I would point out that AP courses are usually not equal to actual college courses.

However, I do think they are worthwhile for high school students and I encourage the overall program of AP courses in the K-12 system as they due serve a function something like a prep course.

The evidence is simple. I have been on committees that oversaw the rewrites of AP college level exams and curriculum used in high school AP systems. Consistently in our field/discipline, the "critical thinking" component expressed through writing was removed, modified or lost entirely when the actual AP material was finalized. The rigor in AP material is usually about 60% of that in an actual college course based on comparing the assessment tools and content guides between college courses and high school AP courses. Skill sets and college level critical thinking plus the lack of a complex collegiate environment are the things missing-that cant be duplicated on a high school campus.

Performance is the other big issue. In our collegiate system, the majority of our AP students that have passed AP courses and exams still struggle in those same courses at the college level. This is hard data to get at but we take a look at students who take AP courses then look at the student performance in college when they decide to major in that discipline. They do not perform any better than students who did not take the AP exam in high school setting. Further, we look at AP students who then signed up for the same course in college, often because of degree requirements in a major. Those students actually performed no better or even worse than students who did not take the AP at all in that subject/course area! Finally it was the critical thinking and skill set area that they struggled in while doing quite well in the content area (here the AP student outperformed the non AP student).

The environment, the course, and the content are not athat teach AP are generally not experienced in collegiate teaching, assessment creation and just dont have a collegiate background of support so vital in the environmental component of learning. Same goes for the students. Not to say there are not many excellent K-12 teachers and students. There certainly are. But you can't really play 8th grade basketball, bring in college level training and some coaching, then call it college level basketball. The environment, developmental level,etc. is crucial.

Still, the AP is generally a step up for the student from average K-12 classes and we encourage it from a collegiate stepping stone model.

Until AP students take the same assessments, in the same environments, and demonstrate the same level of skill sets and critical thinking as other successful college students we must consider the process and the results as somewhat different except in content acquisition.

Christe of CO 2:08PM December 21, 2009

You said exactly what I was trying to get across.

If a child is excelling, them let them take the AP courses. I cannot agree with you more. But don't cut the other "regular" classes to make room for the AP courses. In the end the classes such as metals and auto shop are a lot more beneficial then AP US History.

Nick of OR 11:12PM May 08, 2009

I would first like to state that I am in no way against AP courses in high schools. I took an AP US History course in high school, and completely enjoyed it. I must admit that I am also a huge history buff and frequently read history books for fun.

After taking an AP course I still don't understand why society feels the need to pressure young kids into taking these classes. Let the kids decide.

What about the ~70% of students who are just the average student. The fact of the matter is, most kids aren't going to be computer programmers, or engineers, or accountants. They are going to be plumbers, welders, pipe fitters/layers, police officers, firefighters, and truck drivers.

So please explain to me why the first programs to be cut in schools are welding, woods, metals, and auto shop. I'm not saying we need to lower our standards, if anything we need to increase our standards. But if you are going to prepare the "geniuses" for college, then we need to also prepare the average students who are going straight to work.

Nick of OR 12:01AM May 06, 2009

I am a retired high school teacher and librarian (actually a circulation desk clerk with a MEd) who knows full well that statistics can be deceiving. I was graduated many moons ago from high school went on to college and spent s even summers getting my MEd. I was always third in my class. In high school physical education was a requirement for all four years and was factored in for one's academic grade. So...

Then on to college--#3 again!

That said, I am very happily retired. My late hubby would have said "tired." I went on to teach English to foreign students for fun and for profit while working at two libraries over the course of 20+ years.

Taking early retirement in 1997, I got bored and went on to work part-time for another seven years.

Numbers do not tell all.

SUSAN DAWSON of OR 5:40PM May 04, 2009