What's New for the 2011 Best Graduate School Rankings

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all matters.

jerryyan of DC 9:50AM July 06, 2010

Just want to second Jeff's remark. Like it or not, the legal profession is highly prestige driven and the name of your school will follow you for a long time. It was like that long before US News, and US news isn't going to change that. The rankings are pretty stable, particularly as you move to the top, and more or less confirm the conventional wisdom in the legal community. If they came up with a methodology that suddenly resulted in big challenges to that conventional wisdom, e.g. ranking NYU over Harvard or GW over Berkeley, law students and employers would disregard the rankings, not revise their views about the schools. The rankings are useful to the extent that prospective law students who are interested in a national (top 14) or semi-national (Top 20-25) school can turn to this as a pretty accurate list, in terms of job opportunities and portability. Beyond the top schools, rank becomes much less meaningful and students should look to the schools within the local region where they intend to practice. The rankings do a real disservice to most prospective law students, in that respect. For example, any student who wants to practice in New Jersey and decides to go to U GA over Rutgers because of the much higher rank, is seriously misguided.

JEG of MI 3:28PM April 19, 2010

To J of FL,
Reputation of a law school matters. In regards to employment upon graduation, many firms not only choose the top of the class, but also limit themselves to certain schools, both nationally and regionally. It is here that reputation matters. And understand reputation is based on something, whether it be the quality of the students, the amount of clerkships awarded to students of the school, the number of high paying jobs out of school, the number of judges, even the hiring of law school faculty all plays into reputation. Whether you like it or not, reputation does matter.

Jeff of UT 11:26AM April 19, 2010

I cannot for the life of me comprehend how you place as much weight on reputation and on input variables (UGPA, LSAT) as you do. Reputation is not a variable. It's not a metric. It's how well known a name is. Period. You should be asking about individual professors, not about schools. Asking about schools simply reinforces the nonsense that pedigree matters more than accomplishment.
Looking at outcomes makes sense. look at hires. Look at income. Look at how many practitioners recognize faculty members, not just institutions. This over reliance on reputation of the SCHOOL is why schools that routinely are in the top 100 in SSRN downloads, meaning that people are reading the work of those law school faculties, are routinely left out of the top 100 law schools, or relegated to the bottom of the top 100.
This rankings system continues to be an affront to higher education and professionalism. Because of USNEWS, students with advanced degrees from international universities are less competitive than 22 year olds with amazing LSAT scores. Because of USNEWS students who go to absurd undergraduate institutions and perform well do better in LSAT admissions, while students at difficult universities with lower grade inflation do worse. Because of USNEWS, schools subject to legislative controls for hiring and facilities development and expansion are prejudiced while schools with private funding and no legislative controls are not, though they are treated the same by the rankings. Because of USNEWS, students undergo undue stress and dismay that bear no rational relationship to the values of these rankings. And at the end of the day these rankings simply reinforce stereotyping of academic institutions and cement the top law schools without allowing for any degree of change.

J of FL 12:46PM April 16, 2010

The 2011 law rankings appear to have leaked. If the leak is genuine, then the credibility of US News should take another major hit. It is difficult to explain how GW could have risen from its fall last year to 28, back up to its prior position at 20, without considering the soft factors that the magazine uses to make such determinations. I like GW, its rise, however, in the absence of any change from last year, bears the fingerprint of manipulation. US News needs to fully disclose its methodology, including the geographic distribution of ballots and response rates by region. Otherwise reasonable minded cynics everywhere will continue to question the role of bias and politics in choosing its winners.

reasonable man of CA 6:22PM April 13, 2010

Howard belongs in the top-100 miami should be at least top-45. cardozo is top-40. Tulane and Wisconsin should both be firmly within the top-35, if not top-30. GWU should be #20, and UCLA should be in the "T14". Northwestern is top-7, at least, and Harvard is #1.

Ivan of DC 4:13PM April 13, 2010

In thinking about the employment statistics used by USNWR it seems to me that the "employed at graduation" metric is somewhat meaningless. Not only do students not work immediately after graduation (due to bar prep and passage), but it creates a large bias toward urban schools, where there are local employers. It could be argued that it reflects the OCI efforts of the school, but even OCI is impacted by location, particularly now, when firms are looking to cut costs. Employment is a factor, but 9 months after graduation is sufficient to measure the demand for graduates of a particular law school. As an example, I compared Notre Dame to NYU. One is in an area where employment should be readily available, the other in a rural setting (South Bend, IN). NYU is in the high 90s at graduation and 9 months later. That would be expected. ND is in the 80s at graduation, but high 90s 9 months later. It would appear that even with the disadvantage of location, the ND grads find employment as readily as NYU grads. This fact is lost in the statistics as are countless other factors. If you stop to think about the rankings, nothing but the raw data is of any practical use. For USNWR to assume it can name the "best" schools is absurd, and the attempt to do so works a disservice on potential law students and the law schools.

bam of CA 6:25PM April 10, 2010

In thinking about the employment statistics used by USNWR it seems to me that the "employed at graduation" metric is somewhat meaningless. Not only do students not work immediately after graduation (due to bar prep and passage), but it creates a large bias toward urban schools, where there are local employers. It could be argued that it reflects the OCI efforts of the school, but even OCI is impacted by location, particularly now, when firms are looking to cut costs. Employment is a factor, but 9 months after graduation is sufficient to measure the demand for graduates of a particular law school. As an example, I compared Notre Dame to NYU. One is in an area where employment should be readily available, the other in a rural setting (South Bend, IN). NYU is in the high 90s at graduation and 9 months later. That would be expected. ND is in the 80s at graduation, but high 90s 9 months later. It would appear that even with the disadvantage of location, the ND grads find employment as readily as NYU grads. This fact is lost in the statistics as are countless other factors. If you stop to think about the rankings, nothing but the raw data is of any practical use. For USNWR to assume it can name the "best" schools is absurd, and the attempt to do so works a disservice on potential law students and the law schools.

bam of CA 6:25PM April 10, 2010

Rankings shouldn't be your only guide in choosing a school. Opportunities are extended to people who have skills and to those who know how to relate to others well. If you're in it for the prestige, then you're a media victim.
Most of us who are trying to get in to various professions via degrees offered by universities are attempting to develop a career to better ourselves and help support our families. We have goals in mind that foster a new approach than simply acquiescing to models which place emphasis on numbers and statistics and less value on programs and people.
In the end, we're individuals, and it's the value and force of how you relate, network, and connect to others that will carry you farthest. My friends from Berkeley don't even know where other people went to school, they care about what they've done since they graduated from wherever.
Authority and wisdom are not interchangeable, so take several sources and decide what's right for you. I myself rose from way below the poverty line, got myself through a local no-name university, ended up in a big city making six figures by age 30. But you may discover that all that competitive corporate nonsense doesn't pan out to happiness. I've decided to return to school myself because I don't have anything left to prove. But I want to do good things in the world. I bet you do too. Do it your way. Not theirs.

Joe of CA 5:38PM April 07, 2010

Why use the LSAT as a law school metric but bit the GMAT as a business school metric. The entire US NEWS ranking system could be completely ripped apart as a stats 101 class project at any comminity college round the nation! Why US NEWS doesn't hire people with a statistics familiarity to oversee the ranking department is a big mystery to me.
For example, when ranking starting salaries, US NEWS makes no attempt to standardize the numbers. In other words, $50,000 in Jackson, Mississippi, to US News is weighted the same as %50,000 in Manhattan, NY. Um, if this doesn't deserve the "DUH" of the year award, I am not sure what qualifies!

GatorBait of NY 1:04PM March 02, 2010