Getting Started on the College Rankings

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Nice good blog!

Sharon of NC 7:44PM October 03, 2008

Can you please explain what the difference is between a "Rank" and a "Score"?
For example, University of Florida has a "Rank" of 49 and a "Score" of 56.
I looked for an explanation of what a "Score" is on your website. I couldn't find one.
Thank you.

Robert Henry Eller 5:54AM September 21, 2008

Mr. Morse,
The data on acceptance rates and yields in the "Most Popular Colleges" tables are very interesting to see, but as I'm sure you recognize, there are flaws in equating yield with popularity. A high yield must be viewed in the context of a school's applicant pool (popularity at the app stage), and also its mission, as in how broadly or narrowly it appeals to students, and thus how many are predisposed to choose it when they apply. (e.g. the military academies or BYU) I would suggest doing a little simple math to factor in a school's selectivity as a proxy for these effects -- so, take the yield and divide it by the acceptance rate.
This new measure -- call it the desirability index or something -- would normalize the yield rankings for selectivity. It would make these lists look a bit more familiar, with the Ivies and the military schools crowding at the top (Harvard = 8.8, Navy = 5.8), but there would still be some nice surprises, like the fact that Berea College (KY) comes in 3rd on the liberal arts list at 2.5, beating Williams, Swarthmore, and Pomona. Just something to consider. Yield is certainly a much more complex animal than this list makes it out to be.
For whatever it's worth.

Luke of MA 12:38PM April 18, 2008

Cornell's claimed app total for the Class of 2012 apparently includes thousands of applications which were withdrawn + incomplete
The news release:
"Cornell Chronicle Online
April 7, 2008
America's 'Hottest Ivy' attracts record number of applicants
By Franklin Crawford
Cornell has received an all-time high of 33,011 applications for freshman admission, the Office of Admissions and Enrollment announced last week.
The record number of applicants represents a 9 percent increase over last year and a 17 percent increase over the past two years -- which also were record years. There was no increase in enrollment figures. The selection process for the Cornell Class of 2012 ended March 31.
The overall admit rate -- including early decision and regular decision -- is 20.4 percent, slightly down from last year's admit rate of 20.5 percent, according to the Undergraduate Admissions Mail Date Report. A total of 3,432 students were offered a place on the waitlist; in 2007, 3,223 students were waitlisted.
"About 6 to 7 percent of our applicants do not complete the process and another 3 to 4 percent withdraw before the notification date," said Jason Locke, director of undergraduate admissions. "This is typical for most institutions of higher education."
In addition, 19,305 students were denied admission this year, also a record. Last year 18,419 students were denied admission.
Admissions in general are down at elite colleges across the country, according to an April 1 article by The New York Times. Harvard and Yale universities both reported lower admissions percentages as did Brown, Dartmouth, Bowdoin College and Georgetown University."
----------------------------
While they don't precisely say, it seems they accepted about 6,735 (20.4% of 33,011.) However, there were not nearly that many completed applications. In fact, there appear to have been 29,471 completed applications. Thus, the "real" admit rate (prior to any use of the waitlist) was 22.9%
Stanford has confessed that it played this game in the past, but declares that this year its reported app total is real, and does not include any of these "phantom" applications.
I have thought, when I raised this issue with you last year (in re Yale) that you said USNews, in reporting the admit rate as part of the "selectivity" ranking, asks for the total of COMPLETED applications.
Bob Morse responds: U.S. News has not published data yet for the Fall 2008 entering class as you imply. U.S. News will watch to see what Cornell reports. We are currently collecting data for the fall 2007 entering class.

Alexander Macmillan of MA 3:21AM April 08, 2008

Will there by any changes to the college (undergraduate) rankings in terms of methodology in 2008?
Bob Morse responds: At this point in time (4/8/08) we aren't planning any. That doesn't mean there will not be any.

Joe of CA 8:55PM April 07, 2008

Why don't you publish the ACT Reading score instead of just the ACT Composite, English and Math scores? The ACT English score is equivalent to the Writing secton of the SAT, and the ACT Reading score is comparable to the Critical Reading section of the SAT.
Bob Morse responds: We will probably publish that information when we launch Best Colleges again in August 2008. In some cases, schools only report the Composite Score to U.S. News.

Meredith of NY 5:13PM March 27, 2008

Dear Mr. Morse,
Just wanted to alert you to a curiosity appearing in the up coming 2009 law school rankings: Pepperdine Law School's class of 2006 Employment at 9 months figure of 95.0%.
Last year, law Professor Tom Bell broke the news about the change in how the 9 months Emp. numbers would be computed (to be consistent with the ABA survey), and the rankings effect that change would have had in a piece on his blog,
http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2007/07/2008-usn-law-school-rankings-under-new.html
On July 17, 2007, I emailed Pepperdine career services to understand why, for the class of 2006, they had posted a nine-month number that struck me as unusually high (98% at one point) on their website, without giving a further break down of those numbers. I received the following class of 2006 data from Pepperdine in an email response to my inquiry (i am happy to forward this email directly to you so can verify its authenticity):
Hi Ken,
Here's a breakdown of our detailed numbers:
245 graduated in 2006
194 indicated that they had a job (79.2%)
2 were unemployed and seeking work (0.8%)
8 were unemployed and not seeking work (3.3%)
16 were enrolled in full-time degree programs (6.5%)
23 were studying for the bar full time (9.4%)
2 were of unknown status (0.8%)
If you have questions about why these numbers are different from the numbers on the website, I'm happy to explain (at length) the formula that was used in 2006.
Travis F. Lynn
Recruiting Coordinator
Pepperdine University School of Law
(310) 506-6459
Travis.Lynn@pepperdine.edu
Based on the above data, the 9 month number reported to U.S. News should have been approx. 85.7 (number of grads actually employed plus number pursuing grad degrees), correct?
So where did the 95.0% employed at 9 months appearing in this year's rankings come from??? As professor Bell's analysis from last year's ranking shows, the difference in the accuracy of this number can have a huge rankings impact, and would have dropped Pepperdine nearly 30 spots in last year's rankings.
Bob Morse responds: Pepperdine gave U.S. News different numbers.

Curious of NJ 2:03PM March 26, 2008

I believe that the Assessment Score by Lawyers/Judges should be given equal weight to the Peer Assessment Score. After all, these are the individuals that work with law school graduates on a daily basis and therefore they should have at least as much insight into the quality of graduates the law school produces as professors at other schools. Also, I would get rid of the Acceptance Rate completely. This does nothing but punish schools in less desirable locations. These schools have a smaller applicant pool, so it is only natural that they will accept a larger percentage applicants. Any drop in the quality of students and any issues of selectivity are already reflected in the GPA and LSAT score factors. Not to mention this seems to be punishing schools in less desirable parts of the country twice for reaching out to non-traditional students that they believe will succeed despite lower LSAT scores (perhaps these students could not afford a test-prep course) and GPAs.
What are your thoughts, Bob?
Bob Morse responds-If the peer score by lawyers and judges had a higher response rate, we would raise the weight. Accept rate has small weight, think it play a small role, not important role, in the rankings

John of GA 11:34AM March 26, 2008

What is the timetable for the law peer assessment rankings? When are they distributed, and when are they returned?
Answer from Bob Morse: Distributed in early October 2008, returned by the end of 2008.

blbtroll of NY 1:17PM March 25, 2008