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lawschoolexperience11:27PM April 27, 2011
I meant: Someone that went to a top tier law school, is no more talented than someone that went to a lower tier law school. The only edge they have, is that they went to a higher tier school! These people aren't "smarter," by any means! Hard work? Really? That's all a part of the "Scam" that is "law school." Sorry that I wasn't more specific in my earlier comment.
Vinceof MD6:28PM November 04, 2010
Someone that went to a so-called "Top-Tier" law school has no more of an edge over someone that went to a lower tier law school. Period. Hard work in law school does not necessarily translate into "good grades." This is because professors grade exams on a very subjective basis. Anyone that ever went to law school, knows this. So, the bozo that wrote this article, is just like his law professors: A subjective "Putz!"
Vinceof MD6:23PM November 04, 2010
Anyone who is thinking about going to law school needs to learn about the problem of lawyer overproduction. Since about 1973 the law schools have been producing enough new lawyers to sustain having 1 lawyer for every 172 people. Also, data suggests that only 53.8% of all lawyers are employed in the legal profession, and that number is probably much lower for more recent graduates. Visit these two sites to learn more:
Frank the Underemployed Professionalof OR2:26PM July 20, 2010
My observations after working for a top law firm for seven years, then moving in house for the past three, is that you can either go to a top law school and graduate in the top 2/3rds of the class, or you can to a mid tier law school and graduate in the top 10 students, and you can end up at the same place. When I applied to law school, I figured if I didn't get into a top 5 school I wouldn't go; this based on watching my sister graduate from a mid tier school with bad grades during a recession ('92). Who says no on learns from others' mistakes? The key as Prospective Law Student says is really hard work, regardless of where you go. Also be careful about geography - if you want to work in NY, you have an edge if you go to a NY school - this is due to the geography of alumni factor & employment biases for students graduating from schools that the hiring partner went to.
Rebeccaof NY4:27PM July 16, 2010
Even at top schools, to have an easier time getting a gig, they need to make law review and attain a summer law job.
READ the bad law review articles at the lowest tier law schools sometime, and it becomes obvious why it is very tough for the lower ranked schools to place their newly minted J.D.'s at top firms.
Honestly, read some of the worst. Had an English prof, once, who openly admitted that so many law review pieces were just badly written, overly repetitive, and not nearly as concise as they should be. In short, the worst schools cannot turn out decent writers, let alone top lawyers.
Two Centsof IL11:20PM July 15, 2010
Re: "With demand and cost climbing higher and job prospects diminishing, what's happening to the value of a legal education?"
Elementary.
Lower tier law school grads won't find legal jobs as easily.
Top 15 law grads have it made, as usual (especially going into healthcare, government, or national security).
That's how it should be, anyways. The lower tiers were just admitting anyone and everyone with a half-decent LSAT, then letting them try to shop the J.D. in a market that still favored the better quality schools.
If 5th tier law schools cannot get jobs for the graduating classes, then hey...CLOSE THE DOORS and stop charging insane tuition to hopefuls that couldn't get into Cornell or Chicago Law in the first place.
Two Centsof IL11:13PM July 15, 2010
I recently came to an epiphany concerning the law school decision: if I don't get into and receive significant scholarship and or need-based aid for a top tier law school, I'm going to plan B. Formulating plan B was hard for me because I always thought I was going to be a lawyer in public service capacity. Truth be told, becoming a legal translator at the state department seems more and more appealing, considering that I just stumbled upon Third Tier Reality's little gem of a blog.
But that being said, yes, lots of students graduate from law school and don't find a job. But what kinds of jobs are we talking about? Not every student goes to law school to go to BIGLAW and make ton$ of money. For many of us, it is about getting jobs in public service and knowingly working for very little money and recognition. These jobs are easier to get if you attend TTT schools on the whole. If you want to work at Akin Gump and do SCOTUS stuff, you're going to have to go to a top tier school. It's all about what your goals are. Discouraging all people from attending any law school is unwise.
Also, you have to consider a person's individual sense of determination and work ethic. I'm sorry, but if you go to a top tier school and make low tier grades, you aren't getting anywhere unless your last name is Bush. I'm really kind of concerned at the lack of emphasis on people's individual strengths, intentions, motivations and or lack thereof. It has recently come to my attention that people are just lazy and no matter what their circumstances may be, some people choose not to get ahead and make the best out of a situation. A lot of people feel as though just because they went to law school--top tier or TTTT, they are entitled to the BIGLAW position or any other job for that matter. The cold hard fact is that if you don't work hard for something you're not going to get it and that is the way it should be. It's really survival of the fittest. And it doesn't only apply to the law school situation, it applies to all areas of life.
With that being said, as an aspiring law school student, I'm really terrified at the prospect of being close to $200,000 in debt from my education and it is a very real possibility that my dream job is going to be unattainable right off the bat. However, I choose to remain optimistic and to remember that building networks and hard work are still things that mean something. If you really want something, you'll get it. Too many people give up too quickly and become bitter.
Good luck to everyone.
Prospective Law Studentof FL3:23PM July 15, 2010
Don't go to law school!! It is a huge scam. There is no way to pay off that 150K debt!!! There are NO jobs!!! I'm an '05 law school grad and along with most of my classmates, I'm struggling to get by. Don't make the same mistake!!!!
Hollyof IL3:12PM July 15, 2010
AS A CAREER CONSULTANT PROVIDING CAREER CLSN. TO LAWYERS THE PROFESSION IS GOING THROUGH AN EVOLUTION WHICH MEANS THAT EVEN WHEN THIS NASTY RECESSION IS FINALLY CLOSED THERE WILL BE LESS POSITIONS FOR LAWYERS-PARTICULARLY WITH LAW FIRMS. MOST SURVEYS INDICATE THAT FIRMS ARE ALSO TAKING IN LESS PARTNERS AND EVEN FEWER EQUITY PARTNERS.
ULTIMATELY, IF ONE DECIDES TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL LOOKING THROUGH THIS DECADE THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT MANY MAY GRADUATE WITHOUT A JOB. THOSE THAT DO GET POSITIONS WITH FIRMS, IN HOUSE(GROWING AT EXPENSE OF FIRMS) OR THE GOV'T OR NON FOR, PROFIT WILL COMPETE STRONGLY FOR THEM. FOR THE REMAINING GRADUATES THEY WILL HAVE TO BE FLEXIBLE AND ADAPTABLE IN PURSING
OPPORTUNITIES OUTSIDE THE MAIN STREAM OF TRADITIONAL LEGAL POSITIONS.I AM FAMILIAR WITH MANY LAWYERS WHO USE THEIR JD BACKGROUND BUT NOT NECESSARILY PRACTICING LAW AND QUITE FRANDKLY ARE QUITE HAPPY IN THEIR CAREER!
DAVID BEHREND, DIRECTOR CAREER PLAN. SERVICES FOR LAWYERSof PA1:31PM July 15, 2010
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lawschoolexperience 11:27PM April 27, 2011
Vince of MD 6:28PM November 04, 2010
Vince of MD 6:23PM November 04, 2010
Frank the Underemployed Professional of OR 2:26PM July 20, 2010
Rebecca of NY 4:27PM July 16, 2010
Two Cents of IL 11:20PM July 15, 2010
Two Cents of IL 11:13PM July 15, 2010
Prospective Law Student of FL 3:23PM July 15, 2010
Holly of IL 3:12PM July 15, 2010
DAVID BEHREND, DIRECTOR CAREER PLAN. SERVICES FOR LAWYERS of PA 1:31PM July 15, 2010