This whole idea of discrimination based on race is crap. To people who continuously dodge the issue of race and talk about how underprivileged minorities should be judged on lower standards, I totally agree that socio-economic statuses should be considered in application processes, after all it's unfair to make a student who worked to support his family compete with a prep school, private tutored one who was chauffeured to and from school. But what does race have to do with admissions? If your so-called "underprivileged" black (who's actually from a wealthy family) doesn't do as well as his counterpart Asian (who's from a poor neighborhood), what reason would you have to support him?
And also, I think it's very insulting for African Americans and Hispanics to be automatically considered "underprivileged" in the first place. I'm sure the ones who are prepared for college and have more than their share of credentials to get them in will be offended to be thought of as a charity case in admissions. They've had their share of work, why make them be considered idiots as well?
Either way, affirmative action is a bad idea. For Asians, it just forms this glass ceiling above their heads in the form of underqualified black or Hispanic applicants needing to get in. For blacks and Hispanics, it's giving them the stigma of being pampered, even in the cases when they've really earned their place through their own heard work. At the end of the day, we have to recognize that it's not the 1960s or 70s anymore. African Americans and Hispanics have adjusted well to the American society, and they don't really need any unnecessary pampering that will haunt them later on in life. For the ones who are African Am. or Hispanic AND poor, let them be judged less harshly - not because of their race, but because of their economic status. Why can't we overturn AA into something like "Economic considerations" or something?
Frustrated2:47PM February 11, 2012
The race question is optional so I suggest omitting the question or selecting UNDISCLOSED as a way to combat the discrimination that you face if you are Asian.
"Ashley of MA @ Jun 28, 2010 13:48:38 PM" 's reasoning is completely flawed.
If she is correct, then we should let a UMass grad with a 2.5 GPA attend Hopkins med school over a stellar Harvard grad with a 3.95 GPA. This is because the UMass received an inferior education and would have received a 4.0 GPA if he/she attended Harvard. What ???
There is nothing wrong with an individual with a lesser education or lower academic achievement attending a community college or the like. Once they catch up, get great grades and show they are worthy, then they can apply to Wharton, Columbia Med, Michigan Law .... etc.
These lesser achievers have the same potential, but shoundn'r be given a free ride. Only those who are worthy should be accepted.
Equal Opportunityof MD9:17PM July 18, 2011
I wish you were right-- in fact, I very much support affirmative action on the basis on financial status. However, if you take a look at the socioeconomic status of Black students accepted to elite colleges, you'll see that they are just as wealthy as the other people that are accepted.
At my school (a top 15), all the Black students I know have wealthy parents, and many of them went to private school. In return I will ask you-- why should we have affirmative action on the false assumption that the Black student accepted will be underprivileged? In fact, it's most likely that s/he will be just as wealthy, if not more wealthy, as a White person or an Asian person.
Rachelof MO11:59AM February 21, 2011
Ethinic/racial discrimination and resulting socioeconomics have led to certain ethnicities and races performing higher and others performing lower on standardized tests. The truth is a student in a poor neighborhood is unlikely to have the same education as a student in a wealthy school system.
This article tries to state that discrimination is against more successful ethnicities/races, but it ignores the elephant - the reasons why those ethnicities/races are performing better on the SATs. If a black student from a poor school system with a 1200 and an Asian (let's say Korean) student from a wealthy private school with a 1400 gain entrance to the same college, my instinct is that the black student may have performed just as well on the SAT if they had attended the same school. The discrimination isn't against Asian and white college applicants, but against their counterparts in other races who struggle to receive the same education.
The SATs aren't even considered by many colleges anymore because it is well-recognized that they do not "tell all" about a student or person. Also incidentally the SATs are a work in progress. We are all dating ourselves here talking about "perfect 1600s" because the SAT is now on a 2400 scale I believe? It is also well-documented that the SAT caters better to certain ethnicities/races based on their particular educational backgrounds.
I haven't reviewed the study yet but reading the article I hope people don't just take this at face value and question the issues underlying the facts.
Ashleyof MA1:48PM June 28, 2010
Quite frankly, there are two things very wrong with the admissions process in regard to race.
Number one, all Asians (people from places as diverse as Afghanistan and Sri Lanka and Laos and Cambodia) are grouped together as a "race" (I'm personally not quite sure what constitutes a race: is it looks? Because an Indian person and a Chinese person sure don't look alike).
Number two, race is taken into consideration when socio-economic level is not, or it is given far more weight than socio-economic status. If you have a similarly qualified African-American student who has come from a far poorer background (ie his SAT score was achieved without taking expensive prep courses) then I have no problem with that. But if you choose an African-American kid who went to a private or charter school over an Asian one from a bad neighborhood and a lower socio-economic level, then there's definitely something wrong with the system.
Yeah, I'm an Asian too. But I really hope I don't get rejected from my dream college because of some stupid factor that I can't even control.
Oh, and for everyone out there who's been talking about how Asian parents force their kids to study? That's bull. My mother is constantly telling me to tone it down: it's my friends who I'm competing with.
chadgof CA7:50PM February 19, 2010
I would admit an asian person anyday before I would accept a black or hispanic that is for sure hands down.Asians are hardworking quality people.
chcukof NY3:46PM February 01, 2010
I was amazed when I got into Stanford and Berkeley because so many of my Asian American friends got rejected from EVERYWHERE...
One of my Korean-American friends was an all-American hockey player, but was rejected from both Cornell and Brown, while less qualified Caucasian friends got in (with lower grades, lower SAT scores, no sports).
The valedictorian (another Korean American) got rejected from Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, etc., despite being class president and involved in several sports... she ended up going to University of Michigan.
These are only a few examples of many.
Jews comprise 3% of the US population, but ~33% of Harvard's student body,
while Asian Americans make up 5% of the US population, and only 15% of Harvard's student body...
That meanss it is more than 2-3X more difficult to get into Harvard if you are Asian than if you are a jew.
The quotas from the 1960s and 1970s have been lifted for jews. They should be lifted for Asians as well.
One place to start might be to eliminate preference to children of alumni.
Seri Parkof WI2:10AM January 10, 2010
Affirmative action is just plain wrong and downright evil. Universities should take the best candidates, race or sex should never be considered. It was wrong when whites had advantages before the 70's and it is still wrong today when blacks and Latinos have privileges the rest of the population does not.
These practices not only go on in higher education. They carry on to careers and even government grants and loans. I came here from India. I heard all my life from media that whites were racist and were the privileged class in the United States discriminating against blacks. I have learned first hand that this was pure propaganda. In all my experiences here the African American and Latinos are the racists and privileged class. All they have to do is not enter a life of crime and the US government, corporations and many other organizations will help them all the way. Why don't Asians and whites have similar organizations as the United Negro College fund, NAACP, La Raza (The Race), LULAC, etc, etc, etc.
Honestly I think the three groups who get affirmative action are professional whiners and cry babies. It is my opinion they will be spouting the same propaganda in the year 2525.
Smitta Guptaof IL11:54PM October 28, 2009
Given that roughly half of the world population (billions!) is "Asian", it is quite unfair for the small group of Asian Americans to be lumped in with East Asians, South Asians, and Southeast Asians - resulting in 50% of the world population effectively having to share the 5-10% allowable admissions quota in US colleges.
It is also grossly unfair to not account for the affect that a lifetime of discrimination will have on the psyche of an AA, when handing out Affirmative Action seats in favor of only the Blacks and Hispanics.
But the truly dangerous wave of the near future is when the backlash happens - the fallout effects of lumping all the groups of poor: Laotian, Cambodian, Vietnamese and Burmese refugees in with the privileged children of Asian immigrant doctors, engineers, scientists and academics.
Diversity should be measured by mental and cultural contributions, not physical features only - this is cosmetic. Many AA's are exactly like their white counterparts inside their skins, and should not be feared as part of the "AsianInvasion". Most of them forgot that they are not white. They are domesticated and, I repeat, not to be feared.
All 4.0 students with perfect SAT scores should be put into the same pot and then separated into those with more interesting personal qualities, vs. those without. Then, if someone is just a boring, rote learning student, then by all means, eliminate that person in favor of someone with community leadership and athletic skills.
If whites are sad about lesser admission percentages, I have a FANTASTIC solution for them, HIT THE BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't penalize the AA's who skipped the drinking parties in order to do well on exams. You should call them and offer to join their study groups, you might even enjoy a few delicious cross-cultural meals.
Even the hiring practices of Diversity Professionals are discriminatory, in that Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be hired than Asian Americans. So if even these key Admissions and HR professionals do not have knowledge about the AA issues, how can this growing minority AA population ever hope to receive fair treatment?
It is a crime against humanity to still be discriminating against Asian Americans at this late date in US history.
But I'll bet this is a factor that will contribute to there being more women and Asian Americans in heaven.
PS. I would agree with quotas controlling the percentage of AA's in colleges, if we could balance this with quotas controlling the percentage of whites in residential areas, it's only fair. It's all for diversity's sake, after all...
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Frustrated 2:47PM February 11, 2012
JadeLuckClub of MA 1:33PM July 22, 2011
Equal Opportunity of MD 9:17PM July 18, 2011
Rachel of MO 11:59AM February 21, 2011
Ashley of MA 1:48PM June 28, 2010
chadg of CA 7:50PM February 19, 2010
chcuk of NY 3:46PM February 01, 2010
Seri Park of WI 2:10AM January 10, 2010
Smitta Gupta of IL 11:54PM October 28, 2009
Pamela Hongsakul of TX 1:54PM October 22, 2009