Rick Warren's Surprisingly Low-Profile Role in Proposition 8
Reader Comments
Reply to "Ignoring the Central Fact"
It would appear that you are the one who is ignoring the real central fact. The so-called "right" to marry was granted by four judges on a supreme court who were intent on overstepping their bounds and legislating from the bench. They went against the voice of the people of California, against a definition which has endured in human history from the beginning of time, and against the teachings of every major religion in the world. Your "facts" concerning the Bible's view on women and polygamy are lacking factual support. While polygamy did occur in the Bible, it was NOT taught as the right way. Jesus made it clear in Matthew 19 and Mark 10 that the original intent of marriage was for one man and one woman. He made it clear that this union is so important that God himself is the one who joins the man and woman together in marriage. Ephesians 5:28 says that it is a husband's duty to love his wife in the same way he loves himself. In other words, he is to treat her in the same way he would treat himself. That hardly sounds like viewing women as property.
I fail to see how Rick Warren has abused his power and position. He was simply telling the truth. Oh!! Now I remember, everybody has free speech rights except Christians who actually read the Bible and believe it.
Casey Sassamann of PA wrote on Dec 22, 2008 that marriage's origin is clearly described in Genesis. Casey Sassmann, however, doesn't say which of the creation stories he is referring to. There are two creation stories in Genesis: the first creation story takes place in Genesis 1, while the second takes place in Genesis 2. They were likely written centuries apart. This is the problem with a literal interpretation of the Bible, it just doesn't work. God didn't drop a book down from the sky. Many sacred writings have been honored throughout history. We have the collection we call the Bible as a result of a power struggle in the early Roman Church. They decided what was "sacred" and what was not.
My main objection to this idea however is the notion that anyone would seek to write into the Constitution of California their particular religious perspective. Instead of trying to impose religious beliefs on everyone else by writing them into the Constitution, I belong to a church that serves our community, cares for the poor and ill, empowers the powerless, feeds the hungry, provides spiritual nourishment to the lost and seeking.
This is what Jesus taught us to do as well as spiritual teachers and guides throughout time. Yes on 8 gang have gone after gay people with vengeance and tried to lay the blame for marriage's ills at our feet. They have ignored that the focus of Jesus teachings on marriage was about the evils of divorce. If they really want to "protect" marriage, they should be trying to end the high number of divorces by providing support to married couples instead of distorting the lying to the people of CA about same sex couples.
Right to marriage?
Not sure why this needs to be pointed out: marriage is not a right.
RECALL jERRY BROWN
All these arguments are logical to the one presenting the argument but in the end it is one who has the power (ie FORCE for trekies). Recall Brown and save the taxpayer waiting the court P8 decision and 5 other possible recalls. The US/FL Supreme Courts responded immediately to the FL recount so this delay enables the No on 8 folks to stockpile money for the judical recall. A Brown recall NOW will keep them unprepared. Brown has corp enemies and Protect Marriage has the signers from the P8 drive so a recall can be started now. A new attorney general by March can annul the gay marriages and then go on to eliminate gay unions. This is going to be complete sweep in CA. Join the American Independent Party (AIP) for completion of this task. The Republican Party was created to get rid of slavery but the republicans gave us this court ruling so the AIP guarantees elimination of gay unions and gay power in the state. Do not worry about the legislators they can
be reduced to a part-time Senate per the Little Hoover Commission which is how Nebraska operates. The Terminator seems to be back on the correct track since the announcement of a 10% cut in all departments. He will have to convince the judges to stand-down on P8 since he encouraged the gay court ruling. The court has no say on gay marriage anymore anyway. Power has been transferred the Protect Marriage folks as in the past with Gov Hiram at the turn of the century to cleanup up the government. Start the Brown recall now to save recalling the gay jugdes in March.
Biblical Marriage
Biblical marriage is stated clearly in Genesis, at the dawn of Creation. It states that Adam and Eve were introduced and voila! God's plan for marriage. Any examples of polygamy or any other arrangement that differed from the one-man, one-woman deal Adam and Eve had, are simply examples of people who did things the WRONG way. The only marriage plan ENDORSED as stated at the BEGINNING of the Bible, are the ones that are identical to that plan. Nowhere does Jesus (or God) endorse polygamy, bisexuality, homosexuality, or any other form of 'marriage'. So stop claiming the examples of polygamy in the Bible are evidence that "traditional" marriage is not the true definition of traditional marriage that we know has existed since the beginning of time: one man, one woman, period. Gay marriage will never be marriage, regardless of what the government calls it.
He still advocated injustice toward gays
Sure, this guy may not have personally donated millions to ban gay marriage and adoption, but he used his power during the campaign to do so. Whether it was late in the game or not, he still did it. And he's justified it by saying that gays are basically immoral like adulterers and child molesters! Incredible. This is unforgivable, unless he actively tries to reverse all the damage he's caused to gay couples, gay children, and their families.
Ignoring the Central Fact
Please stop and think about this matter. My right to marry was taken away by a narrow majority vote. It takes more of a majority to pass a budget in CA. And now you are trying to tell me someone who used his position to request voters to take my rights away is not all that bad because he helps people in Africa who have AIDS. Sir, this is stupid! One has nothing to do with the other. Should someone who abuses their power and position get off free because they worked in a soup kitchen or gave money to a charity?
He claims marriage as we experience it today is "biblical marriage". He ignores the fact that marriage in the Bible viewed women as property and polygamy as expected. Marriage has changed significantly over the decades since it was discussed in the Bible and will continue to change as human society and human need changes. It is an alive and vibrant institution that should be available to gay and lesbian couples.
Rick Warren said, "We cannot let 2% of the population change the definition of marriage" meaning that it is just gay and lesbian people who support the right of same sex couples to marry. Well, 48% of the voters supported it in November 2008. And the next time, a majority will support it.
Is this a balancing act?
I don't understand the logic that says because Warren is good on some issues (and he is, I don't deny it) this somehow mitigates his position on lgbt rights and same sex marriage. Regardless of whether his support for Proposition 8 was high or low profile, it was support.
You can say that he could have been worse, but in no way does it make his position on this matter good.
Rick Warren
Why do all you pundits bring up AIDS when discussing whether Obama was right to include Warren? AIDS is not exclusive to gays. And some day soon, marriage will not be exclusive to heterosexuals either!
