Gays Aren't Necessarily Atheists

Aetheist

Gays aren't aethiests? Big deal. Satan, by definition, is also not an aetheist. He believes God exists just like many people proudly living a gay lifestyle do - but believing God exists sure doesn't make either of them right in God's eyes.

Many will say 'Lord, Lord.... we did many wonderful works in your name'. Response? ' I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, you workers of evil.'

Worship in spirit and truth - yeah, don't forget that truth thing when it comes to pleasing God.

kate

You really need to research American history. First, very few people could actually afford slaves in the beginning. Second, we did not steal them. Their enemies (other Africans) did most of the kidnapping and sold their prisoners to Europeans. So if you want to blame someone for black slavery in America blame the blacks that encouraged whites to continue to the slave trade by offerring "goods". Third, slavery stayed in the south and the north remained free states. Fourth, only 5-6% of the white population from the south owned slaves. So, blacks really were not that big of a factor in the American economy as seen after the Civil War, and we didn't steal them.

You say that Christians should not judge what your comment implies that you are judging us for being wrong. How do you explain this? As for how we know we are correct in what we say, God gave His commands in His written word the Bible and homosexuallity is forbidden. (As is heterosexual offenses). If you read my comment you would find that Steve's post was not that good in terms of reasoning. True Christians don't begrudge anyone from worshipping God, but we don't tolerate people who say they can worship God and have what is plainly an immoral lifestyle according to Scripture.

Donna truely hit the mark in her post. Christians don't expect people to be perfect, but they do expect themselves to strive for perfection.

Tired of this stereotyping

I don't know what planet some people are living on. WE cannot turn our planet into a perfect place. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. All good people will tell you, christian or not, that they are not perfect. That we all sin. Since when in the history of human beings has forcing(legislating) certain behaviors worked? Have murders stopped? Has abuse, neglect, rape, etc. stopped?

More to this point, what about Roe v. Wade? Did it fix the problem? Easy answer. No. It has divided families and communities better than anything else has ever done.

For me, that is why I am against changing the def. of marriage. When society demands change, it will happen. I don't want the Supreme Court, a few elected officials, and a very small percentage of our society creating another division in this country. Can we please learn from history?

By the way Ms. Erbe, I challenge you to explain how the catholic church has 'completely rejected' the homosexual lifestyle. The church also teaches no pre-marital sex - not to use contraception to prevent pregnancy - Many of us are not perfect, but it is us rejecting church teaching, not the other way around. Otherwise, quit the stereotyping of a large segment of our country based on the statements of a few bigots.

Christians are homophobic

I thought that Christians were meant to be accepting and giving people. As an Australian reading this sort of thing it frightens me that you and your high morals are going to cause even more damage telling people that they aren't right. How can you be sure that you right. Seriously! Mind your own business. So what if a "fag" loves the same god as you. What are you going to do burn them at the stake. As Steve said should you really be building these super churches that generate huge profits which don't pay tax. Or should you make sure that all the people in your so called great country have a hot meal at night. The only reason that America has so much money is from all your early christians stealing blacks for slavery and look who is most likely to live in poverty. The gall of you people is amazing. You have people like Ted Haggard on TV and radio with huge influence that was of taking drugs and having sex with male hookers. How very christian of him. Is it really about atheists or is it that you can call gays atheists and then they are not in the same boat as you. The sooner that you stop judging people about things that don't involve you the better you awful redneck Christians will be. Why don't you put some time into caring for the elderly or the poor instead of your hate and segregation crap. Shame on you!! God is the one that judges not you.

Typical Liberal

What could move avowed atheist Bonnie Erbe to say something positive about religious enthusiasm? Here's a hint, the colors of the rainbow.

Only when its politically correct does Erbe say anything positive about religion.

Not so Charles...

Atheists really have no incentive to be moral, while a Christian does. To the atheist life is very much like that of the Teacher in Ecclesiastes who said everything was meaningless without God. Why? Well, it doesn't matter if you are the doctor who cures AIDS and cancer or the psycho-terrorist that kills millions just for kicks and giggles, your fate is the same. Over time, the names for both of these persons will begin to be forgotten and eventually only a select few will be even able to give an accurate description of what each did, but the world will continue without their memory. What makes it worse is that both stop existing after death! Christians on the otherhand, though they are forgiven, are still expected to do good because Christ's death is not just a charm to ward off God's judgment. Rather, it is saving grace that we are not worthy of receiving. Also, they remember that each will be rewarded according to what he/she has done. Christians should try to help make the world a better place, but they should let that become their mission. After all, this earth shall pass away and a new and more perfect one shall take its place (Revelation 21-22). Why invest in something that does not last?

Steve, I agree with you that Christ wants the Church to be loving towards each other and those outside of it. However, those six points were not His only commands. He also asks us to leave our life of sin (John 8:11, Romans 6), which includes all sinners and not just homosexual offenders.

Interesting premise...

Ms. Erbe - hearing that "Gays Aren't Necessarily Atheists" would be like hearing "Op-Ed Writers Aren't Necessarily Idiots." I may not be suggesting *you're* an idiot - but I sure bet you'd be incensed.

I sure wish straight people would *talk* and *listen* to GLBT individuals - more than one or two - before speaking or writing about them. If anyone actually listened, they might learn things...like, for instance:

1) If anyone - even good looking people with clear skin and good jobs - went to church and repeatedly heard that they were going to hell, that they were undesirable and universally, unfixably outside the pale, I guarantee you that *they* would be atheists too. If The Church is wondering how so many GLBT folks came to be atheists, look in your pulpits and your publications. It's written in some Book somewhere that you will reap what you sow.

2) There are hundreds of thousands of "out," faithful gay Christians. Google the Gay Christian Network or Whosoever.org, and you'll find just the very tiniest tip of the iceberg. But for every single out GLBT person of faith, there are a thousand more hiding in church closets, clinging to faith and tradition and praying not to be discovered for fear of rejection and hatred. They are your pastors, your ushers, your teachers, your church council members.

They are already among you, praying for the day that the church would finally start taking what Somebody said about "loving your neighbors" to heart. If all the gay people in churches were to walk out simultaneously and form their own church this Sunday, it would cripple the existing supposedly-straight Christian church. It would be a lot, lot better to welcome them than drive them out.

3) When people talk about sin, I find it interesting that the thing that Someone said would separate "the sheep from the goats" was whether people were

-Feeding the hungry

-Giving drink to the thirsty

-Welcoming the stranger

-Clothing the naked

-Caring for the sick

-Visiting those in prison

I'd propose to you that Christians who aren't actively involved in doing those six simple things "to the least of these" are living lives that are much more "incompatible with Christian teaching" than the people to whom most church folk (and others) would call attention.

Why aren't our churches (yours and mine) joining every single Christian church of every variation and denomination in demanding, with one voice, that these six commands of Jesus be followed universally? Regardless of what we believe about worship, or preaching, or musical styles, or any other supposedly-central thing - why are we as the united body of Christ not locked arm-in-arm over this?

Why is it not sinful to spend $25 million on a mega-barn for a mega-church, and not spend the same amount on caring "for the least of these?" I'm just asking...

Talk. Listen. I think everyone involved will be amazed what might happen.

Gays & Atheists

Atheists have to believe morality is far more necessary than religous people. They have no "Big Daddy" to rescue them from thier "sins".

When one knows that "forgiveness" is guaranteed, there is little incentive to try to make the world a better place. Without that belief one has to conclude that your own mistakes will be paid for by you, without exception.

Why would anyone expect gays to be atheists?

Many years ago I wrote: "All conceptions of the inconceivable are equal." In attempting to write about the nature of God, the prime-mover of all existence is either an exercise in humility or one of futility. Those who speak about the ineffable with absolute certainty, have nothing to say.

Before I read the comments made on this article, I intended to say, anyone who thinks that gay people were not religious must be living on the moon. As a Jew with a Jesuit education, many of the most religious people who I grew up with were gay. Most of the boys who went to seminary were gay; and several of the boys who went on to be rabbis and cantors also. Many of them exhibited intense spirituality at a young age. The idea that gay people would be atheists at a greater rate than straight people is an absurd expression of prejudice founded on ignorance.

What does one say about a comment like: "Almost all of the world's major religions agree on one thing . . . homosexuality is a sin." The first question is, of those religions that focus on "sin," which of them excludes sinners? I suspect that would be a very small religion whose services are held by a lone psychopath in a closet. Second, I'd ask what that writer knows about Buddhism or Hinduism; two religions with well over a billion adherents. Third, I'd ask that this person look more closely at Christianity since gay people worship openly in many of those communities, especially ones that believe that their religious tradition is a spiritual treasure that is not bound to every word of one politically-assembled book about a person who had been dead for more that 75 years before a single word of it was written, let alone translates and retranslated from many languages. Absolute faith in the literal inerrant truth of every word of the Bible is not faith in God; it is belief in folly. When it comes to Judaism, remember Jesus was a healthy Jewish man with a living Jewish mother, who was unmarried at the age of 33. What were the odds of that, unless he was queer as a three dollar bill?

When are we going to get past these absurd lies that divide us by race, gender, ethnicity and religion, to realize the obvious fact the for better-or-worse we are far more alike than we are different. Maybe then we will realize the truth that we are stronger united than we are divided.

Atheism offers very little reason to be moral...

Godfree, the only thing that atheism offers concerning morality is moral relativism, which is quite laughable. Why? Well even C.S. Lewis knew that if called something morally good just because it happens to meet your fancy does not necessarily make it good. And if you have lived in this world long enough, you'll find that doing morally good things typically are not bound to whatever conveniences us. Sometimes, the greatest acts of goodness occur when people actually set aside their "comfort zones" or whatever and do what is right anyway. Now atheism can only offer moral relativism because anything else would mean that a higher standard is in place that condemns or justifies the actions of men. Acknowledging such a standard would then raise questions like where did this ethical code come from? Is it a purposeless thing that just happens to exist? Does it come from a higher authority that decided what is right and what is wrong? If it has no purpose, then why does mankind in general have this terrible feeling called guilt for injustices and believes such things ought to be corrected? So obviously such a standard does indeed have a purpose and has gained the desired results from humanity. Yet, if it does indeed have a purpose, then what caused it into being? After all, no law that is put into effect comes out of thin air and is enforced. Some intelligent being had to have created it because this person/thing wanted mankind to realize that what it [mankind] was doing was wrong or displeasing to the ultimate authority that instituted this ethical system. I could go on Godfree, but I believe you are smart enough to see that we are no longer in atheism Toto and are about to depart from the real of agnosticism into the world of theism.

Atheists such as Stalin, Mal Pot, Hitler (he might have called himself Christian but his actions show that he was most definitely not a believer), and others killed more of their own people and others than the Catholics did during the Crusades.