Abortion, Catholic Sex Scandals, the Bishop of Scranton, and Joe Biden's Communion
Reader Comments
catholic rules
if you use catholic to get votes you must be a catholic not pick a chose if you want join church of england
Joe Biden
Our Declaration of Independance identifies three rights that are intrinsic to our humanity, the first and the one on which the others hinge is the right to life. It has zero to do with any "theocracy". The right to life is "self evident". One needn't be a rocket scientist to see that all humans have that right from the hand of the Creator.
Next, Biden is under no obligation to be a member of any religious body. He is free to get his hat and walk away from Rome. However, any religious body has the right to determine who is, and who is not a member in good standing. Biden touts his Catholicism so he should be held accountable by that Church. If Biden is a sunday morning Catholic but doesn't live the other six days as one, the Church is under no obligation to keep silent about his hypocracy in order for him to sucker weak Catholics into voting for him.
Re: comment from Mr. Collins of PA. You are absolutely correct. The abortion issue is being used to manipulate voters, divide americans and prevent progress on other issues that are critical to the health of the U.S.The damage done to our country by election of an allegedly anti-abortion president whose incompetence and ulterior motives have brought us an unnecessary war (and many deaths), debt that will last generations, bailouts for wall st. bankruptcies (caused by unbridled greed of Bush et al cronies), loss of civil rights, etc., etc. are incalculable. We will be fortunate indeed if the US survives this reign in any semblance of "good health".The single issue anti-abortion voter,the religious right and those who really want a theocracy have a lot to answer for..they are the ones who gave us the past 8 years and the much less positive future we now face in the U.S. I doubt that these results will help persuade others to support the far right's positions which have injected religion into public policy and served to destabilize and lose so much. This has always been and will always be the result of mixing church dictates into laws of the state. Some see the selective denial of communion to a public figure because of his espousal of choice over church dictates as just more efforts to influence/dictate . Why choose such a public figure-one running for VP of the U.S.- to enact such sanctions on, yet allow others with the same opinion to receive communion? Only if the point is to influence politics and votes and impose personal and/or institutional religious beliefs onto everyone.
Re: comment from Mr. Collins of PA. You are absolutely correct. The abortion issue is being used to manipulate voters, divide americans and prevent progress on other issues that are critical to the health of the U.S.The damage done to our country by election of an allegedly anti-abortion president whose incompetence and ulterior motives have brought us an unnecessary war (and many deaths), debt that will last generations, bailouts for wall st. bankruptcies (caused by unbridled greed of Bush et al cronies), loss of civil rights, etc., etc. are incalculable. We will be fortunate indeed if the US survives this reign in any semblance of "good health".The single issue anti-abortion voter,the religious right and those who really want a theocracy have a lot to answer for..they are the ones who gave us the past 8 years and the much less positive future we now face in the U.S. I doubt that these results will help persuade others to support the far right's positions which have injected religion into public policy and served to destabilize and lose so much. This has always been and will always be the result of mixing church dictates into laws of the state. Some see the selective denial of communion to a public figure because of his espousal of choice over church dictates as just more efforts to influence/dictate . Why choose such a public figure-one running for VP of the U.S.- to enact such sanctions on, yet allow others with the same opinion to receive communion? Only if the point is to influence politics and votes and impose personal and/or institutional religious beliefs onto everyone.
Abortion, Catholic Sex Scandals, the Bishop of Scranton, and Joe Biden's Communion
Mr Mashek-
Your points are well-taken. I am a pro-life, practicing Roman Catholic from the Scranton area. The Republican party brings the pro-life issue to the forefront every presidential election. This is the same Republican party that controlled both houses of Congress from 1994 to 2006, that has controlled the White House since 2000, and that enjoys a 7 to 2 advantage on the U.S. Supreme Court. Despite having the motive, the opportunity and the means to address the abortion issue, the Republicans have done nothing to overturn or even whittle away at Roe v. Wade. Why? Because they use the pro-life platform as a wedge issue to demonize pro-choice candidates. If they did overturn Roe v. Wade, they would have to scramble to another divisive issue to scare the voters. They say that they are pro-life. Yet they do nothing to address the issue when they have the power to do so.
A Few Questions
If I were a thoughtful Catholic, and had some time to sit down and visit with John Mashek, I might ask him the following:
Do you understand why the Bishop is doing what he is doing? If you do understand, then do you think he is not doing his job?
Are you suggesting that the Bishop should not speak out on morals or grave sins? That perhaps, he should remain silent on such things? Are you thinking he should not lead his flock, which is his responsibility after all, but instead FOLLOW them?
Why do you resent this Bishop of Scranton? Do you know him? Does your perception of other sinful priests and Bishops lead you to conclude that ALL Bishops are to be distrusted? Is that a valid way to treat him?
Your comment about more than half of American Catholics being "prochoice" suggests that you think they should have some say in the matter. Is right and wrong determined by a majority vote? Do you perceive the American Catholic Church to be a democracy? Would it still be Catholic then?
What leads you to assume the Knights wish to read you "out of the Church"? Can you come up with other possibilities as to why the Knights did what they did? Have you thought to ask one?
Is it better for the Catholic Church to be swayed by the changing mores of the surrounding culture, or to stand like a rock and repeat over and over what individuals in that culture ought to do? Is it easier to go along with the flow of a culture, or be vilified when you point out its defects?
These are the questions we might start thinking about, asking and answering in turn in order to come to wisdom...that is, if we were thoughtful Catholics.
Abortion, Catholic Sex Scandals, the Bishop of Scranton, and Joe Biden's Communion
What do sex scandals and abortion have to do with each other? Bishops have an OBLIGATION to speak out against abortion and advise pro-abortion Catholic politicians of their errors. (If you want to call Biden and others pro-choice, I ask you what is the choice? Is it not to kill an innocent unborn child?) Would it not be proper for bishops to speak out against the legalization of rape or slavery or the holocaust or even sexual abuse of children? The sex abuse scandal is a sad story but no one is recommending abusing children and the church is attempting to eliminate even opportunities for abuse.
"Too hard" (john 6:6o-66) ?_reply
For the person who asked how one stating the Catholic faith is "too hard" (John 6:60-66) can explain the disparities within the church including the "sexual abuse" record. It is not really that difficult to explain historically or spiritually.
The church's problem with sexual abuse and seemingly moving priest around from parish to parish to protect them has an explanation. The Church, sought the advice of modern medicine that taught, these men could be rehabilitated. Obviously, those optimistic doctors of the mind have come to see the error of their advice, but I don't hear them publicly admitting it.
In actuality, the priesthood has a much lower percentage of pedophilia than the general population- but thanks to a bias, vocal media, one would get the impression that every other priest is a pervert. Lastly on this point, most of the offenses of the past few decades where aimed at teenage boys...this is HOMOSEXUALITY, not pedophilia. The Church had many seminaries consciously recruit homosexuals in the '60's and '70's when the liberal minds did not view homosexuality an improper disposition for the priesthood as long as the vow of celibacy was taken. HA! RIGHT! That worked out real well! In those years, many earnest young men were turned away from seminaries being told they were "Too Orthodox".
Jesus had Judas and evil will always attack the Church Jesus founded, as HE told Peter, "the gates of hell will not prevail against it", but it will try and try and try.
As Catholics, who are first human, we will make mistakes and succumb to sin as will those in the Church. We all have the Sacrament of Reconciliation at our avail and absolution if we have a sincere spirit of amendment. (change of behavior). The confessional is not a place to get washed clean with the intention of going out and committing the same offense. Biden promotes, the murder of the most innocent. Obama's promise to sign the "Freedom of Choice Act" will guarantee the right to abortion without any restrictions to the developmental age of the fetus, up until birth! It will over-ride all STATE restrictions and STATE RIGHTS. Any Catholic supporting such evil with their vote is first and foremost accountable to GOD.
MASHEK ON THE CATHOLIC- CHURCH,ETC.-9/23/08
I AGREE WITH MASHEK AND APPLAUD HIS COURAGE IN SPEAKING UP. KNOWING THE FANATICS WILL DAMN HIM AND HIS BELIEFS WITH THE MOST CAUSTIC WORDS THEY CAN FIND. MASHEK REFLECTTS THE BELIEFS OF MANY-CATHOLICS AND OTHERWISE. MANY BELIEVE THAT A CHILD SHOULD BE WANTED AND LOVED, NOT JUST BORN. UNLIMITED REPRODUCTION IS SEEN AS IRRESPONSIBLE, NOT MORALLY SUPERIOR.
IF THEY BELIEVE THAT ONE MUST BELIEVE UNQUESTIONINGLY ALL THAT THE MALE AUTHORITIES IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DEMAND IN ORDER TO BE A "REAL CATHOLIC", WELL THAT IS THEIR PEROGATIVE. IT IS RARE, HOWEVER, THAT ALL MEMBERS OF A GROUP AGREE 100% WITH ALL THAT A GROUP PROFESSES TO REPRESENT;WERE THAT A REQUIREMENT THEN GROUPS WOULD BE VERY SMALL INDEED.
THE LAW AS IT NOW EXISTS ALLOWS EVERYONE TO FOLLOW THEIR OWN RELIGION/BELIEFS. NO ONE CAN FORCE YOU LEGALLY TO HAVE AN ABORTION AGAINST YOUR DEEPLY HELD BELIEFS-NO ONE WANTS THAT. YOUR BELIEFS ARE BEING RESPECTED; YOU ARE FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES.
THERE WILL NEVER BE COMPLETE AGREEMENT ON THE ABORTION ISSUE. KNOWING THIS, SOME ARE USING THIS ISSUE TO INFLAME PASSIONS AND MANIPULATE THE ELECTORATE BY PROFESSING AN ANTI-ABORTION STANCE TO OBTAIN YOUR VOTE, ALTHOUGH THEY REALLY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE ABORTION ISSUE. THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT GETTING YOUR VOTE AND THE POWER THAT GOES WITH BEING ELECTED. BE ANTI-ABORTION IF THAT IS YOUR BELIEF,BUT DON'T BE BLIND TO THE REAL MOTIVATIONS OF THOSE WHO ONLY WANT YOUR VOTE SO THEY CAN PROGRESS WITH THEIR OWN AGENDA. TAKE ALL ISSUES INTO ACCOUNT. oTHERWISE, WE MAY WELL LOSE OUR DEMOCRACY AND THE FREEDOMS THAT ALLOW YOU TO WORSHIP, BELIEVE AND ACT AS YOU CHOOSE. LIKE COMMUNIST CHINA ,THE FREEDOMS YOU'LL LOSE BY SUPPORTING THE PRETENDERS WHO ARE SEEKING WEALTH AND POWER COULD INCLUDE THE FREEDOM OF CHOOSING TO HAVE AS MANY CHILDREN AS YOU WANT-ONE OR NONE ARE THEIR ONLY CHOICES. IN PUSHING SO HARD FOR ONE HEARTFELT ISSUE AND DISREGARDING ALL ELSE, ALL COULD BE LOST. SO MUCH HAS BEEN LOST ALREADY. iF WE DO NOT WORK TO ENSURE THE 90% WE DO AGREE ON-AND ARE ABSORBED, INSTEAD ,BY THE 10% WE DON'T , 100% COULD BE GONE. ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY THAT PRICE AND IMPOSE IT ON YOUR CHILDREN, GRANDCHILDREN AND FUTURE GENERATIONS? DO YOU WANT THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR LOSING SO MUCH BECAUSE SOME SUCCESFULLY DIVERTED YOUR ATTENTION AND ENERGIES BY MANIPULATING YOU WITH YOUR OWN BELIEFS? WOULD THAT BE GOOD FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH-OR ANY OTHER SO FOCUSED ON A SINGLE ISSUE?
THAT IS THE DANGER.
THAT YOU ARE SINCERE IN YOUR BELIEFS THERE IS NO DOUBT. IT IS RESPECTED AND UNDERSTOOD.BUT THINK ALL THE OTHER ISSUES THROUGH. GIVE ALL ISSUES THE ATTENTION THEY DESERVE-THE CHURCH ALSO HAS POSITIONS ON WAR AND POVERTY AND MORE. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A MORE CRITICAL PERIOD IN OUR NATION THAN NOW.
Response to comments on Mashek article on abortion,etc.
Separation of church and state was not only the main issue that drove many out of Europe and the British Isle and into the "new World" where they hoped to find freedom of religion, but it is one of the primary reasons that this country and its democracy and freedoms have endured some 300 years or so. This separation has provided considerable stability, in contrast to civilization's long history of wars (AND DEATHS!) that have been fought over religious beliefs and the (OPPRESSIVE) POWER ofdominant religions. This is not a theocracy, although it is clear that there are enormous pressures from the true believers for the U.S.. to become a theocracy. The dangers of that are many...have those leaning that way considered what kind of a country this would be if the prevailing theocrats were notof their own beliefs?? What if you were forced to live under the laws of an alien religion? There would likely be many more laws you would disagree with strongly than the one permitting abortion. By allowing individuals to follow their own beliefs rather than imposing one's onto another, religious freedom is preserved for all. It safeguards the right to practice and believe as a Catholic - or any other religion.
I would like to ask those who think some may be finding it "too hard" to be a Catholic by not imposing their beliefs on abortion on others -or- those who judge pro-choice supporters to be hypocritical or inconsistent- just HOW do you rationalize the widespread abuses by Catholic clergy that have gone on for decades, probably centuries, and been covered up by the pillars of the church again and again? Inconsistent and hypocritical are far too mild to describe those hideous sins and the excrutiating pain enhanced by the church's refusal to acknowlege what must be the greatest breach of trust that can be inflicted on a child!! "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." The Catholic clergy have lost any moral authority they may have had - and it is no one's fault but theirs and the culture and bureaucracy in which it thrived.
If the great religions have done such a good job of spreading the message of love, then why are there so many childen living in poverty, suffering neglect and abuse? Love is not expressed merely by giving birth to a child-it is in the nurturing and care that society expresses the value it puts on human life.
Our schools are disintegrating. Wouldn't it be a better expression of God's love to provide loving care and good schools for the children that are born? What about the children who are abandoned, orphaned, ill, disabled, etc. There are great needs going unfilled. Time spent improving the lives of needy children is an effective way to express their value . Perhaps when all children are cared for and loved there can be a more valid moral argument against abortion. Protests ring a little empty when there are so many unwanted, desperate children already here.
The abortion issue is being used to divide us
