Abortion, Catholic Sex Scandals, the Bishop of Scranton, and Joe Biden's Communion
Reader Comments
Vocation killed!
I agree!I had the vocation to become a Catholic priest...but my Vocation was killed after spending a few days in a Scranton Seminary and hearing what my Bishop was spouting off in public!I knew I could never let him Ordain me...and I could never give him my vow of Obedience!I'd be the first to give our Vice President the host!!!! Under Obama/ Binden we are no longer torturing people in America...and they are trying to get us out of the war.What could be more "Christ like"?
re: ms.d'azzo's comments of 9/26
Scapegoating does not justify anything. Blaming anyone and anything is just more denial of responsibility. It is that denial and the cover ups that went on for sooooooooooo long that allowed sooo many to be abused. Despite mountains of testimony and evidence to the contrary the church continued to make excuses and denials. Even now any apology is only done with GREAT reluctance and the fewest words and the barest sense of remorse. This is moral?
It seems that a desire to evade U.S. laws and retain the great wealth and power of the church dominated the thinking that drove church behavior in response to these abuses, rather than any real concern for the victims or any desire to be good citizens and law abiders in the countries in which the church resides. They overrode the moral choice for their own selfish, earthly reasons. At least, that is how it appears.
In light of all this, most thinking people will question the wisdom of the church, its supposed guidance by God, its commitment to the good of its parishoners and, certainly, its MORAL AUTHORITY. And, that is why the church sex scandals are relevant. For many, it has shaken their beliefs to the core-at least their belief in the church and its bureaucracy, hierarchy, male domination and authority. It's really that s
simple.
Maybe some would put more stock in the opinions of the church on U.S. laws if the church showed respect for the laws of the country by adhering to them. That would include, of course, reporting those within their ranks who break them rather than aiding and abetting by covering up.
The U.S. is a nation of laws, not a theocracy. No one is above the law here. And, citizens of the U.S. have never been more acutely aware and sensitive to those who try to put themselves above the law or manipulate it for their own advantages than we are now...because there is a tidal wave of it going on in various institutions and with the heads of our government - and we are in the gravest danger of losing this wonderful country as a direct result of those abusing our laws.
Churches don't have to pay taxes-supposedly as a part of separation of church and state, yet we all are obligated to obey the laws of the land we inhabit. If churches want to influence those laws, then they, too, must pay equivalent taxes. Even then they must obey the laws as they stand. As for abolishing the separation of church and state, that'd be for all Americans to decide. Remembering the Spanish Inquisition and so many other atrocities committed under governments run by religions, most will probably be hard pressed to agree to such an arrangement.
I think these are some of the issues on people's minds in regard to the wisdom of churches and religion having so much power-especially in our governance, spending and elections.
Finally, Ms. d'azzo-most homosexuals are not pedofiles; most pedofiles are not homosexual. It is the abuse of the vulnerable by the powerful that is the real issue.
Separation of Church from State
It is Senator Biden who has, in his actions as an agent of the state, separated himself from his Church. No reasonable person accepts that he didn't know his support of legalized abortion was contrary to Church teaching. He chose to violate the Church's moral code, and continues to do so publicly. Hopefully this sanction will be instructive and serve to bring his actions back into line with the moral teachings of the Church he professes to believe in. If it does not, then it will serve to illustrate that he has chosen to serve his own interests, rather then Christ's Church.
The Church, an entity separate from the State, has a right to tell it's members anything it wants to, short of incitement to riot or sedition.
I beleive that religious leaders need to take more responsibility. Take some credibility upon their congregations, and let them make political decisions on their own. Forcing a political vote through spiritual intimidation is immoral, illegal, and wrong.
I dislike the terms pro-life and pro-choice. They distort the issue. The question is, should abortion be legal, or illegal?
I have yet to hear, or read about anyone who is "PRO ABORTION". I've yet to hear anyone who is pro-choice going around saying abortion is a wonderful thing people should do. I'd say everyone agrees that ABORTION IS WRONG.
Even if you ignore the controvertial question, "When does human life truly begin?" we can look at all the horrible affects on the mother. The negative impacts of mental and physical health alone are enough to decry the act of abortion. I think EVERYONE can agree, that reducing abortion is the only morally ethical thing to do.
Now, why do some people choose to have an abortion? Fear? Desperation? Anger? Rape? Money? All we know, is that people make this choice. It's been a part of human history for all ages, all places, just as the other sins and vices.
Now, here's the question. Should abortion be legal or illegal?
If it is illegal. Then doctors, illegaly, will still perform abortions. Women will, illegaly, get abortions. Of cource, under dangerous and questionable conditions. Then, if either party is caught. They now face charges of murder. We have a woman, who is most likely poor, desperate, in mental anguish over losing a child, face charges, and likely go to jail, and pay fines with money she doesn't have.
If it is legal. Then we can have sex and abortion clinics. A place where it is safe(er). Where a pregnant woman can get help about making a better choice. Find out WHY they want the abortion and hopefuly adress those problems instead of using the last resort of abortion.
That is my viewpoint, correct me if I am wrong! Would things be drastically different than how I just described them?
Now, which way can we prevent more abortion? Which way will give women a safer environment? Which is the more christian? Which is the more humane? Which is the more caring and loving attitude toward abortion?
I think about both possibilities, and I can't help but think that a prohibition of abortion is a good intention gone too far. The only responsible viewpoint is to be BOTH pro-choice and pro-life.
I do not see how one can say you can only be pro choice, or pro life. I also don't see why christian intitustions are trying to control people who are obviously doubtful to be christian!
In fact, I think the proper thing for all churches, christian and all others, is to work WITH abortion clinics. Send out voulunteers to help educate on the different options and avenues for help. I'd rather have women turn to a clinic, and leave with a child and more hope. I think THATS what most people want when they say they are pro choice.
Abortion is Murder
Biden supports murder. He should not take communion. Why? Because taking the Holy Eucharist with in an unclean state brings judgement upon oneself. The Catholic Community withold communion; in order, that one does not bring judgement on oneself.
Sad that a Catholic does not understand his own religion.
Difference between Religious View and a view a Religion holds
A religious view is something like, The Eucharist is the Body of Christ, or Mohammed is a prophet of God. These are the things that would fall under separation of Church and State. Things that actually would approve or disapprove one religion or another.
A view a Religion holds does not necessarily have to be Religious. Most faiths believe we shouldn't steal, because of Religious laws, yet no one argues that we should not have a Federal law against stealing, because it flat out has nothing to do with Religion, but rather objective morals.
If any thing you could look at Abortion as forcing your views of Science on someone else, because what the argument boils down to is, "is it a fetus or a person".
objective evil
The author's knowledge of his faith is sorely lacking. Objective evil is not defined by any court or any poll. Abortion is evil or not based on the nature of the act. The Catholic Church has defined abortion as a grave evil and participation in the procurement of abortions an excommunicable offense. This has been and always will be the case. A Catholic who claims this faith and rejects this teaching is a poor Catholic indeed.
One evidence as to the author's lack of understanding is the rather childish interjection of pedophilia, another grave evil, into the article. If John had any valid point, then why such a strange non-sequitor? Yes, pedophiles are likewise forbidden from the communion rail while still in a state of mortal sin. Yes, it is a serious evil and a terrible scandal. Yet it has nothing to do with the topic of abortion.
The need for separation of Church in state is equally important to the Church. The Catholic Church has the right and moral duty to define it's own faith, as it has in the case of abortion. It has the right to define it's own disciplines, as it has in this excommunication and all that are excommunicated for participation in abortion. It is not that these people need to be punished, but rather the importance of this teaching be emphasized. It is surely the wish of the Bishop and all faithful Catholics that Biden and others change their support of this type of murder and return to the faith.
Zygots????????????????????????????????/////
Joseph P. Ciraolo, PhD of NY, and Marjorie Morris, RN believes that abortion is not murder because a zygot has no heart or brain and is therefore not human. Ciraolo states that 50% of them don't even progress by implanting into the uterus.
Obviously, Ciraolo and Morris are zygotes as they obviously lack heart and mind when it comes for the innate right to life that is undisputable. Have either of you ever observed the process of "Partial Birth Abortion" where a child, of a developmental age to survive out side the womb, independent of the mother, is delivered feet first, (so it cannot technically be consider alive, by taking its first breath of air) has the base of its skull pieced with a scissor and has its brains sucked out? Have you ever heard Jenna Jensen's a survivor of abortion, now 31 years old, give her opinion of abortion?
I suggest you look at the facts a get out of your "heady" world of superiority while innocent lives are gruesomely snuffed out.
Joseph P. Ciraolo, PhD of NY, and Marjorie Morris, RN believes that abortion is not murder because a zygot has no heart or brain and is therefore not human. Ciraolo states that 50% of them don't even progress by implanting into the uterus.
Obviously, Ciraolo and Morris are zygots as they obviously lack heart and mind when it comes for the innate right to life that is undisputeable. Have either of you ever observed the process of "Particial Birth Abortion" where a child, of a developmental age to survive out side the womb, independent of the mother, is delivered feet first, (so it cannot technically be consider alive, by taking its first breath of air) has the base of its skull pieced with a scissor and has its brains sucked out? Have you ever heard Jenna Jensen's a survivor of abortion, now 31 years old, give her opinion of abortion? I suggest you look at the facts an get out of your "heady" world of superiority while innocent lives are gruesomely snuffed out.
What does it mean to be Catholic?
There is a substantial difference between Catholic and Protestant. It is intrinsic in Protestantism to be very individualistic. Note the common practice of Protestants to change churches and denominations. Many smaller faith communities even change what they believe based on who they have hires as the pastor.
Catholicism is more of a collective faith. To be Catholic means I accept what the Church teaches, especially when it says the specific beliefs are essential. As a Catholic, it is important for me to accept as my own what has been taught through the centuries. Abortion has been condemned since the very early days. To change now would mean we were wrong for almost 2000 years. If we say that about anything, then why believe in anything else? Isn’t it all up for grabs?
Sen. Biden and Rep. Pelosi have rejected the Church’s teaching on abortion. The Church has said this is “non-negotiable”. If they choose personal beliefs over the ancient faith, that have become defacto “Protestants”. They have protested what the Church teaches and that isn’t that what Protestant means?
You don’t have a right to be Catholic. You can desire to be Catholic and the Church needs to accept you. Both need to agree.
