How We Calculate the Rankings

Michigan debate

From an assessment perspective, how does a graduate at one institution (i.e., Kevin of MI 3/20/09) make a determination that graduating from that institution provided better employment opportunities than graduating from another. Realistically, you would need a large sample cohort with similar quality indicators like degree level, discipline, scaled GPA with or without grade adjustments if applicable, etc. to compare graduates' employment success rates against its primary in-state competitor (for public institutions).

Self-reported results are nearly always going to be positive because underachievers rarely announce their post-graduation lack of success or over-report salaries and position titles. We see the same common error in graduate follow-up surveys. Those unemployed and living in their parents' basement 4 years after completing a Bachelor's degree are unlikely to respond to either the institution's development office seeking donations or assessment/institutional effectiveness office trying to measure where/what their graduates go and do after graduation.

Rankings are a perfect example of the Prisoner's Dilemma-ideally no institutions participate because the variables are so different; preferably a few participate and the rankings hold limited clout among institutions (bragging rights) and prospective students, and in actuality, everybody participates for fear of being one of the few excluded from the rankings. Each year when I complete our main, financial aid and finance surveys, I know that in August the rankings are correct when we break the top 50 public institutions, or the methodology is skewed when our rank goes down. And if people are going to post comments, at least have the courage to post your full name.

MSU vs. U of M.

Both Michigan and Michigan State belong to the Association of American Universities. Only 62 institutions in North America belong to this association. I would not degrade either Michigan or Michigan State. Both of them are national research univerties. That means they produce top ranked Ph.D's. However, going to Michigan does cost a bit more. Let me ask you this. Are you sure that everyone coming out of Harvard or Stanford is more successful than someone graduating from a jinky-dinky Michigan or Michigan State? I have found many people with Ph.Ds from Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Michigan working as researchers and faculty members for institutions such as Duke, Stanford, and Ivy Schools. All I am saying is the quality of an education from these top-notched institutions is not much different from each other.

R. Ecky - I'd also go with Michigan

I have a friend who transferred from MSU to Michigan (he's studying actuarial math) because Michigan was more challenging and offered more opportunities. Even though Michigan may not offer the exact journalism major/field you are interested in, you could easily get involved with organizations that focus on that, or find jobs/internships that would give you experience and exposure to journalism. My one friend was in a situation similar to yours and even though she wants to go into journalism she's majoring in Political Science and is an editor for a student publication, and so that works nicely to supplement the curriculum that isn't based on journalism. The things you do outside your actual classes and major really do make a difference, and are very valuable in terms of the diversity of and quality of experiences you can get in a field you want to pursue.

I'm probably a little biased since I graduated from Michigan last year, but I really do believe they have more overall opportunities to offer. But if you are very impressed with the MSU program, it may also be a good option for you. Good luck with your decision! (and Go Blue!)

R. Ecky -- Choose Michigan, if you are concerned about job prospects

I did my undergrad at Michigan and got three job offers after I graduated. Many well known companies come to Michigan to recruit. The Michigan name gave me better job prospects after I graduated, and a stronger resume when I applied to grad schools.

Comparing universities

I'm having trouble comparing Michigan State with the University of Michigan. I have been accepted to both for this coming Fall.

I think I want to major in Journalism-Advetising-Public Relations. Everyone one says that Michigan is the better school by far and a degree from there would land me a much better job than if I graduated from MSU. Both are close to where I live. Some of my friends are going to MSU and it would be nice to know someone when I start. That's not a good reason to pick a school, however. MSU seems to have a very good advertising & journalism program, while I really can't find one similar to it at Michigan. The Ross School of Business is world-reknowned for it's curriculum and has many grad students there. It really does not have a specific advertising study program like MSU does. One of my parents says I would be crazy not to go to Michigan since it's a better school and much harder to get accepted there. The other one says I should go to whichever one I think best fits me, but at the same time readily admits that Michigan is a much better choice. I've done many online comparisons and visited both schools at least once. The more I lean toward MSU, the more pressure I get to pick Michigan.

What's the best way to decide where I should go? Has anyone else faced this same dilemma? Any MSU or Michigan responses? I don't want to hear any sports comparisons either! Has anyone started at one and then transferred to the other? Why?

Trip down memory lane

I looked at the rankings for the first time in two years, when I was neurotically scanning my school on the list to see how I compared. Oh the cold nervous sweats of a young snob. How desperately I wanted a brand-name school, a school with a high-rank.

All I can say to prospective students is that I was chasing the wrong dream. Instead of looking for a school that would have made me happy, I looked for one that would have spoken for me. I encourage all nervous juniors and seniors to actually look at the classes offered at the schools you want to go to, or teacher ratios, or employment rates after college. I skimmed by rank and learned nothing.

A 20 mpg car is better than a 50 mpg car?

Which one achieves more? When you compare the performance of a car, which car has a better mile per gallon of gas? You will not say 20 mpg is better than 50 mpg, right?

Yet, the University which achieves the top academic achievement with less resources and more students to take care is ranked lower than the Universities which also achieve the same top academic achievement but with more resources and less student to teach.

Look, University of California at Berkeley reaches the top academic achievement as any top University in the world with fewer resources as a public school. This is a higher mpg already. Plus she takes care of more students than any other peer top University. This should put Berkeley even higher in ranking, not the other way around.

Please reconsider your ranking methodology

Stop Procrastinating

The fact is if we didn't care about rankings, none of us would visit this website, let alone posting comments on it (instead of doing homework). I attended a state school in "upstate" New York and received a great education that prepared me for grad school. But if my family and I had 40K/yr to burn, I would've gone to Cornell in a heart beat. Nothing is wrong with that. For those of you in top schools: congratulations, just don't let it go to your head. And for the state kids out there: you already know your school is great, you have nothing to prove, and no reason to hate ranking systems or students in smaller private schools.

Yes it's definately a waste of time to freak out about these rankings BUT since it's so popluar with prospective students and family it's important to represent the schools fairly. The top 20 ranked schools are ranked fairly accurately but when you move on from there they become more and more unorganized with there rankings. One example is the University of Miami being ranked higher than the University of Minnesota. Minnesota has nationally top ranked departments like Economics,Healthcare,Law, and MBA. When Miami isn't even on the charts for any of these. Yes Miami has fewer students with a harsher acceptance rate, but thats just to weed out most of the students who go there only for the weather.

Really

Based on facts, yet in paragragh seven it states they(US N & WR) takes those indicators then use their own judgement how much weight to give those indicators for anyone particular school. So there's where's the subjectivity comes in.LOL